Women pastors

[OopsMartin]

Yes I knew it would end up being the Catholics fault.

Smalcald, I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school and the whole deal. I think you might consider that you've got a button and should disconnect it. Catholics do get a good deal of flack and realistically some of it is deserved. But that didn't happen here.

When did I say there was anything wrong with ordination rituals? All that was said was that the Catholics started them, which put them in a certain TIME FRAME!

[OopsMartin]

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

I though you knew the scriptures.

In 3:1 & 5 the Greek is tis which means 'anyone/someone' etc.

1The saying is trustworthy: If ANYONE aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if SOMEONE does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?

The "someone as you call it is controlled by the masculine "he take care of the Church" It can mean someone but the context, context, context says differently.

Larry,

when the subject is "anyone", then the pronoun "he" does not change the subject to he, but is used inclusively to refer to the unknown "anyone". That is the context of chapter three.

[methinkshe]

My final word on the matter, because argumentation will get us nowhere:

"He who has ears, let him hear."

Ruth

[OopsMartin]

Part of the problem here is that some are going by what others have told them to believe. They have not researched the Scriptures themselves. When people just accept what others say without doing as the Bereans and searching the Scriptures for themselves, they accept other's preconceived ideas and then build again on that until its gathered so much extra baggage as to be really nonsensical and confusing. Someone not in their circles is often more able to see the confusion than the ones in the middle of it. Those who just repeat what others have reasoned out, really don't understand much of what they are saying.

Heb. 5:11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Every Christian is supposed to grow into the maturity of the stature of Christ. Every Christian is supposed to grow beyond being fed the reasonings of others (predigested milk) and be able to see and reason for himself the Word of truth knowing how to rightly divide Scripture. Those who simply repeat what others have told them are still babes being fed milk. Without reasoning things out for ourselves, searching all the Scriptures (not just repeating pieces of sentences helicoptered out of their contextual home) we don't have enough real understanding to reason it out to others.

No the problem comes when those searching the scriptures try to make them fit into todays preconceived notion that women have somehow been picked on for 2000 + years and the teachings for all those years were wrong. Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, women preachers "in a church setting" have been taught against from scripture since its beginnings, but now all of those things have invaded us as a society and there are those who twist them to their peril. Just because "society" is trying to make them acceptable does not mean that God has changed.

Aaaah so now women who preach the truth of God's Word are now linked with homosexuality, adultery, fornication. WOW.

So enlighten us. How do you qualify that. We know you don't like women preaching from behind a pulpit like most male pastors do. How about if she is just leading the worship and says something that teaches the congregation is that like fornication also. How about when the pastor opens the floor for discussion, can a woman IYO speak the truth then. How about outside of the church building in the parking lot, can a woman preach and teach there or is it limited to how many men are present at once. How about if there are two women and one man, can she still preach and teach the truth then?

So is it the woman teaches truthes who is unholy by reason of teaching in the presence of holier men or is it that the woman who teaches inside the holier building is defiled because of the truth that passes through her female lips. Really by your reasoning Christian women should just keep their mouths shut so they don't take the risk of defiling anyone by speaking the truth!

Tell me how do you explain the fact that Miriam led the women in worship and sang God's truths before the whole nation when they gathered as well as prophesied before the whole nation (prophesy in the OT was not merely psychic-like readings but was teaching and explaining as well). And how do you explain the fact that Deborah taught the nation of Israel the truthes of the OT when she made decrees of life and death and made strong judgements in disputes. And how do you deal with the fact that Deborah was The Prophet of the nation and as such would bring God's directives to the nation, that includes men and women. And how do you deal with the fact that Huldah was chosen to direct the king (a man) in how to bring the nation back into obedience to the sacred scrolls, and she was asked to give this direction when Jeremiah and Zechariah were still alive. Did God forget His own rules and take that which you claim is evil and use evil to guide His people?

???

[Ovedya]

I see the same arguments being repeated over and over again.

Honestly this thread is just going nowhere. We are all stuck in a circular argument with no end in sight.

How about we all just agree that we are not going to agree and end it here?