God Bless President Bush

[chrisb]

I kind of thought this might be a good place for discussion, but I seem to have jumped on some toes hard. Anyway, for the record:

It is a great place for debate, if you debate honestly.

1. This is I guess, a matter of observation. The bottom line is, he said he was going to unite people and he hasn't got it done. As I said, he pledged to be the uniter, not a divider. That means he bears responsibility for not getting it done.

That is ridiculous really. This country was more united than it has ever been after 9/11. Do you remember the over 90% approval ratings?

2. First, I did not say they are in control, only that they have renewed their strength which has been confirmed by the latest NIE.

Their strength is nowhere near what it was when they were in control of the country. They are being fought every day. The real problem, which has nothing to do with Bush, is the safe haven they have in Pakistan. Waziristan is a problem, and will remain one until a solution is found for it. You could have 40,000,000 troops in Afghanistan and it would make no difference.

Also: "Seven months before the invasion of Iraq, the head of British foreign intelligence reported to Prime Minister Tony Blair that President Bush wanted to topple Saddam Hussein by military action and warned that in Washington intelligence was "being fixed around the policy," according to notes of a July 23, 2002, meeting with Blair at No. 10 Downing Street.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5051201857.html

Ah yes, the infamous Downing Street memo! You guys have not got over that one yet. Where is the evidence?

3. In fact, Cheney still holds nearly half a million Halliburton stock options which have risen 3,281% in the last year and are now valued at over $8 million. Also, its an absolute fact that Bush's first big deal was Harken Energy (oil).

Cheney's remaining Halliburton stock has already been put in a trust that he can't access. It is to be given away once the options on it mature. So no, he in fact, stands to gain nothing from Halliburton's stock increasing.

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_...alliburton.html

This was all sorted out years ago.

As for judging Bush, I only said I see no proof of the Christian virtues in his work as President.

I see no proof of Christian virtue in your dishonest postings.

Edited July 27, 2007 by chrisb

[chrisb]

I think had we never went into Iraq, and focused on the actual terrorist that attacked us, we would be far better off today, and worldwide Islamic Extremist groups would be in a lot worse position in terms of recruitment and support than they are today. The last 2 NIE Reports completely agree with that statement.

Oh really? Show us.

How would staying out of Iraq made Waziristan accessible? Leaving Saddam in charge hardly would have made the world a safer place. Remember where Zarqawi went after being nearly killed in Afghanistan?

Edited July 27, 2007 by chrisb

[forrestkc]

I think had we never went into Iraq, and focused on the actual terrorist that attacked us, we would be far better off today, and worldwide Islamic Extremist groups would be in a lot worse position in terms of recruitment and support than they are today. The last 2 NIE Reports completely agree with that statement.

Oh really? Show us.

How would staying out of Iraq made Waziristan accessible? Leaving Saddam in charge hardly would have made the world a safer place. Remember where Zarqawi went after being nearly killed in Afghanistan?

And that proves what? Was Saddam funding Zarqawi? Did Zarqawi launch attacks against the United States or our allies from Iraq? Zarqawi travelled to just about every nation in the Muslim world, should we attack them all?

Saddam was contained, was disarmed, gave 25k to the families of suicide bombers in palestine, but in terms of terrorist support, was near the bottom of the list in the Middle East. He was a secularist third rate dictator in a third rate country that posed no substantive threat to the United States or our allies.

The war in Iraq has become a primary recruitment vehicle for violent Islamic extremists, motivating a new generation of potential terrorists around the world whose numbers may be increasing faster than the United States and its allies can reduce the threat, U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded.

A 30-page National Intelligence Estimate completed in April cites the "centrality" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the insurgency that has followed, as the leading inspiration for new Islamic extremist networks and cells that are united by little more than an anti-Western agenda. It concludes that, rather than contributing to eventual victory in the global counterterrorism struggle, the situation in Iraq has worsened the U.S. position, according to officials familiar with the classified document.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6092301130.html

[Smalcald]

I wonder how the situation would have played out if we had not insisted on occupying Iraq for so long? I think the fact that our military took them down in three weeks made an immediate point. But now our failed occupation just makes us look weak.

[chrisb]

I think had we never went into Iraq, and focused on the actual terrorist that attacked us, we would be far better off today, and worldwide Islamic Extremist groups would be in a lot worse position in terms of recruitment and support than they are today. The last 2 NIE Reports completely agree with that statement.

Oh really? Show us.

How would staying out of Iraq made Waziristan accessible? Leaving Saddam in charge hardly would have made the world a safer place. Remember where Zarqawi went after being nearly killed in Afghanistan?

And that proves what? Was Saddam funding Zarqawi? Did Zarqawi launch attacks against the United States or our allies from Iraq? Zarqawi travelled to just about every nation in the Muslim world, should we attack them all?

Saddam was contained, was disarmed, gave 25k to the families of suicide bombers in palestine, but in terms of terrorist support, was near the bottom of the list in the Middle East. He was a secularist third rate dictator in a third rate country that posed no substantive threat to the United States or our allies.

The war in Iraq has become a primary recruitment vehicle for violent Islamic extremists, motivating a new generation of potential terrorists around the world whose numbers may be increasing faster than the United States and its allies can reduce the threat, U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded.

A 30-page National Intelligence Estimate completed in April cites the "centrality" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the insurgency that has followed, as the leading inspiration for new Islamic extremist networks and cells that are united by little more than an anti-Western agenda. It concludes that, rather than contributing to eventual victory in the global counterterrorism struggle, the situation in Iraq has worsened the U.S. position, according to officials familiar with the classified document.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6092301130.html

I always love third hand analysis from anomymous sources. So reliable.

Saddam allowed Zarqawi to enter the country and gave him medical treatment. You ignored the real point of course. How did Iraq make Waziristan a problem?

[forrestkc]

I always love third hand analysis from anomymous sources. So reliable.

Saddam allowed Zarqawi to enter the country and gave him medical treatment. You ignored the real point of course. How did Iraq make Waziristan a problem?

We do not have infinite resources that which to combat muslim extremists with. By removing forces and resources from Afghanistan in order to invade Iraq, we allowed Al Qaeda to escape back into Pakistan, moreover, our presence in Iraq fuels extremism in eastern Pakistan, thus creating even more of a safe haven there by weakening the power and political capital of moderate factions in Pakistan.

See: Outsourcing the Hunt for Bin Laden. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2597

As to our occupation of Iraq and its affects on combating Islamic Extremism worldwide:

From the 2006 NIE:

We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and

operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the

struggle elsewhere.

[chrisb]

The problem with both theaters IMO is this fascination with SF and doing more with less. That is why UBL escaped. We did not have enough people in the area to capture him. We similarly don't have enough people in Iraq to subdue the insurgence, and kill off AQ.

[oncebitten]

This topic's wandered a bit and needs bringing back to what its about. Bush has his faults, but we all do. Could you run the most powerful nation on earth and take care of the problems in Africa, the Middle East, the far east, south america.. I mean, you'd make mistakes too if it was left to you to try and improve the lives of everyone in the world. The guy is like a kind of superman to me. the fact hes done all this in the face of so much bush bashing and the liberal media bashing him relentlessly... he is a credit to our nation and he is an honourable man. God bless bush indeed.

Just my two cents.

Edited May 19, 2008 by oncebitten

[Guest]

[tah]

This topic's wandered a bit and needs bringing back to what its about. Bush has his faults, but we all do. Could you run the most powerful nation on earth and take care of the problems in Africa, the Middle East, the far east, south america.. I mean, you'd make mistakes too if it was left to you to try and improve the lives of everyone in the world. The guy is like a kind of superman to me. the fact hes done all this in the face of so much bush bashing and the liberal media bashing him relentlessly... he is a credit to our nation and he is an honourable man. God bless bush indeed.

Just my two cents.