Hebrews 6:4-6

[st. Worm]

And do you believe that the Word of God and His Holy Spirit has no power?

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I have never heard of a Christian that refused to say he was also a sinner yet you refuse to answer my question. Very telling.

sw

[Guest shiloh357]

It is impossible to be a Christian and still be a sinner. The term sinner is used 13 times in the NT and the term "sinners" is used 28 times. Not one of those references is used to describe Christians.

1. When one is born again, there is a change of status:

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Romans 5:6-8)

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(2 Corinthians 5:17)

One cannot be the same old sinner they have always been and yet be a new creation where old things have passed away. There has been transformation from sinner to saint.

2. The term saint is used to refer to believers in NT over 60 times. The word "saint" in Gk. is hagios and answers to the Hebrew tzadik In Hebrew a "tzadik" is a righteous, blamless person and that is the term Paul uses in Greek when he uses hagios. Paul would not call sinners by a term that means blameless and pure.

3. Call oneself a sinner if one has been born again, is diminish the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We are justified by grace through faith in the finished work on the cross and one cannot be justified and still be a sinner. We are declared righteous the moment we put faith in Christ.

4. One is not a sinner because one sins. Being a sinner is based upon one's spiritual standing before God apart from works either good or bad. If one could be a sinnner because he sins, then it would follow that one is righteous because of his good, righteous deeds, but all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags. A sinner is not someone who sins. A sinner is someone who does not know Christ.

You can be a sinner or you can be Christian, but you cannot be both. If you are still a sinner then you are without hope; pray you do not go to meet the Lord tonight in your present condition.

[Fiosh]

None of what you said indicates that Christians are also not sinners. Do you believe you still sin? Have you sinned today?

sw

sinner = one who commits sin

Yep, that's me.

But I'm in good company...

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold into slavery to sin.

What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate.

Now if I do what I do not want, I concur that the law is good.

So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh. The willing is ready at hand, but doing the good is not.

For I do not do the good I want, but I do the evil I do not want.

Romans 7: 14-19

The sinner in my flesh is in constant battle with the saint in my spirit.

[st. Worm]

It is impossible to be a Christian and still be a sinner. The term sinner is used 13 times in the NT and the term "sinners" is used 28 times. Not one of those references is used to describe Christians.

1. When one is born again, there is a change of status:

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Romans 5:6-8)

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(2 Corinthians 5:17)

One cannot be the same old sinner they have always been and yet be a new creation where old things have passed away. There has been transformation from sinner to saint.

2. The term saint is used to refer to believers in NT over 60 times. The word "saint" in Gk. is hagios and answers to the Hebrew tzadik In Hebrew a "tzadik" is a righteous, blamless person and that is the term Paul uses in Greek when he uses hagios. Paul would not call sinners by a term that means blameless and pure.

3. Call oneself a sinner if one has been born again, is diminish the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We are justified by grace through faith in the finished work on the cross and one cannot be justified and still be a sinner. We are declared righteous the moment we put faith in Christ.

4. One is not a sinner because one sins. Being a sinner is based upon one's spiritual standing before God apart from works either good or bad. If one could be a sinnner because he sins, then it would follow that one is righteous because of his good, righteous deeds, but all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags. A sinner is not someone who sins. A sinner is someone who does not know Christ.

You can be a sinner or you can be Christian, but you cannot be both. If you are still a sinner then you are without hope; pray you do not go to meet the Lord tonight in your present condition.

Pure unadulterated baloney. A sinner is someone who sins. We stand before God simul justus et peccator, simultaneously justified and sinner. We are declared just only for the sake of Christ not because we are not sinners. You have no concept of justification.

sw

[Guest shiloh357]

It is impossible to be a Christian and still be a sinner. The term sinner is used 13 times in the NT and the term "sinners" is used 28 times. Not one of those references is used to describe Christians.

1. When one is born again, there is a change of status:

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Romans 5:6-8)

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(2 Corinthians 5:17)

One cannot be the same old sinner they have always been and yet be a new creation where old things have passed away. There has been transformation from sinner to saint.

2. The term saint is used to refer to believers in NT over 60 times. The word "saint" in Gk. is hagios and answers to the Hebrew tzadik In Hebrew a "tzadik" is a righteous, blamless person and that is the term Paul uses in Greek when he uses hagios. Paul would not call sinners by a term that means blameless and pure.

3. Call oneself a sinner if one has been born again, is diminish the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We are justified by grace through faith in the finished work on the cross and one cannot be justified and still be a sinner. We are declared righteous the moment we put faith in Christ.

4. One is not a sinner because one sins. Being a sinner is based upon one's spiritual standing before God apart from works either good or bad. If one could be a sinnner because he sins, then it would follow that one is righteous because of his good, righteous deeds, but all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags. A sinner is not someone who sins. A sinner is someone who does not know Christ.

You can be a sinner or you can be Christian, but you cannot be both. If you are still a sinner then you are without hope; pray you do not go to meet the Lord tonight in your present condition.

Pure unadulterated baloney. A sinner is someone who sins. We stand before God simul justus et peccator, simultaneously justified and sinner. We are declared just only for the sake of Christ not because we are not sinners. You have no concept of justification.

sw

I can see that you are still bent on being just as ugly, hateful and diminuitive as ever. I guess that comes with being a sinner.

The problem is that Christians are never called sinners in the NT. They are called saints. One cannot be both a sinner and a saint at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. Saints are by definition, pure and blameless, sinners are not. You cannot be both. If you are still a sinner, you are lost and without Christ and with no hope of eternal life.

A sinner is not defined bywhat he does by what is. The work of the cross, justification deals with the bondage of sin, not the sins we commit. The blood of Jesus brings forgiveness for what we do. The cross brings deliverance from what are.

You also have not dealt with the concept of being a new creation. The Bible says that if you in Christ you are a new creation and that old things have passed away and that ALL things are made new. The status of sinner is passed away and all things in pertaining to the beleiver have been made new. One cannot be a sinner and a saint and a new creation.

You will need to either choose Christ or choose to be a sinner. Sinners are not children of God and have no portion in Christ.

[st. Worm]

It is impossible to be a Christian and still be a sinner. The term sinner is used 13 times in the NT and the term "sinners" is used 28 times. Not one of those references is used to describe Christians.

1. When one is born again, there is a change of status:

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Romans 5:6-8)

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(2 Corinthians 5:17)

One cannot be the same old sinner they have always been and yet be a new creation where old things have passed away. There has been transformation from sinner to saint.

2. The term saint is used to refer to believers in NT over 60 times. The word "saint" in Gk. is hagios and answers to the Hebrew tzadik In Hebrew a "tzadik" is a righteous, blamless person and that is the term Paul uses in Greek when he uses hagios. Paul would not call sinners by a term that means blameless and pure.

3. Call oneself a sinner if one has been born again, is diminish the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We are justified by grace through faith in the finished work on the cross and one cannot be justified and still be a sinner. We are declared righteous the moment we put faith in Christ.

4. One is not a sinner because one sins. Being a sinner is based upon one's spiritual standing before God apart from works either good or bad. If one could be a sinnner because he sins, then it would follow that one is righteous because of his good, righteous deeds, but all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags. A sinner is not someone who sins. A sinner is someone who does not know Christ.

You can be a sinner or you can be Christian, but you cannot be both. If you are still a sinner then you are without hope; pray you do not go to meet the Lord tonight in your present condition.

Pure unadulterated baloney. A sinner is someone who sins. We stand before God simul justus et peccator, simultaneously justified and sinner. We are declared just only for the sake of Christ not because we are not sinners. You have no concept of justification.

sw

I can see that you are still bent on being just as ugly, hateful and diminuitive as ever. I guess that comes with being a sinner.

The problem is that Christians are never called sinners in the NT. They are called saints. One cannot be both a sinner and a saint at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. Saints are by definition, pure and blameless, sinners are not. You cannot be both. If you are still a sinner, you are lost and without Christ and with no hope of eternal life.

A sinner is not defined bywhat he does by what is. The work of the cross, justification deals with the bondage of sin, not the sins we commit. The blood of Jesus brings forgiveness for what we do. The cross brings deliverance from what are.

You also have not dealt with the concept of being a new creation. The Bible says that if you in Christ you are a new creation and that old things have passed away and that ALL things are made new. The status of sinner is passed away and all things in pertaining to the beleiver have been made new. One cannot be a sinner and a saint and a new creation.

You will need to either choose Christ or choose to be a sinner. Sinners are not children of God and have no portion in Christ.

At least I can confess I am a sinner. Whatever religion you follow I guess that is not a good thing. Like I said, you have no idea about forensic justification and apparently not even the gospel. Being counted as righteous and being righteous are two different things. And don't call me hateful you jerk. You are the most hateful and divisive poster on this board.

sw

[JLW001]

THis set of scripture refers to those who have been saved and who reject Jesus in order to embrace the world. It is not speaking of Christians who stumble and go through periods of sin. As was mentioned before, the sacrifice of Jesus is effective in forgiving sin for the CHristian who repents of his sin. However, if someone, openingly and with full cognition, rejects Jesus (note this is not sinning, but a rejection of Jesus and all that He is) then there remains no longer any sacrifice for them.

Jesus destroyed the sin problem and if you accept, rely upon and believe Him, then your sins will be forgiven. However, if you have known Jesus and then knowingly reject Him, then you are dead to God. THere remains no further sacrifice for the remission of your sins and you will go into eternal damnation.

Edited August 4, 2007 by JLW001

[Guest shiloh357]

At least I can confess I am a sinner. Whatever religion you follow I guess that is not a good thing. Like I said, you have no idea about forensic justification and apparently not even the gospel. Being counted as righteous and being righteous are two different things. And don't call me hateful you jerk. You are the most hateful and divisive poster on this board.

Once again, you cannot actually address the substance of anything I posted which only highlights the weakness of your position.

• You cannot explain how saints can be blameless and pure yet still be sinners.
  
  
• You cannot explain how one can be a new creation and all things become new while still being the same sinner you ever were.
  
  
• You cannot demonstrate how that Christ died for us we WERE sinners according to Romans 5:8. "Were" implies a change in sstatus.
  
  
• You cannot provide ONE Scripture from the New Testament where Christians are identified as sinners.
  

I understand forensic justification just fine. I understand the difference beween legal and moral justification, st worm. I understand the difference beween imputed and imparted righteousness. I understand that we are declared righteous, not made rigteous. I understand that righteousness was imputed to us as it was to Abraham. I also know that justification changes my status from guilty to innocent.

The problem is that there is more in play than only justification. There is more the Bible has to say about what being born again means than justification. Justification is only one part of it.

I also understand that if being sinner is wrapped in what we do, then being righteous would be wrapped in what we do as well, but justification is by faith not by works. Your works do not make you sinner. Being saint, pure and blameless is based upon the finished work on the cross, not on what you do or don't do.

A sinner is one who is in Adam not in Christ. When you are born again, you are no longer a member of Adam's race, you are no longer idenitied with Adam; you are identified with Christ.

Sins do not make you a sinner anymore that good deeds make you righteous. If a person is still a sinner, he does not know Christ.

[JLW001]

Sins do not make you a sinner anymore that good deeds make you righteous. If a person is still a sinner, he does not know Christ.

This is a key concept of Christianity and is what Paul calls the rudimentary or basic parts. Jesus solved the sin problem! Praise God! If we are in Christ Jesus, then our sins are fogiven. If we are not in Jesus, then our sins are not forgiven. It is that simple. If you are not in Jesus, you are in Adam....if you do not walk according to the Spirit then you walk according to the flesh.....If a Christian rejects Jesus, then he is no longer part of Jesus and is in Adam again and there is no longer any sacrifice that can place him back in Jesus Christ........

It is not a sin problem....it is whether or not you accept Jesus Christ. And if you accept Jesus Christ, the you are a new creation....you will love God and hate sin. While we fail and sin, because we are in Jesus, those sins are forgiven by the Blood. However, as new creatures we will not live in sin, but walk according to the spirit.

Edited August 4, 2007 by JLW001

[st. Worm]

At least I can confess I am a sinner. Whatever religion you follow I guess that is not a good thing. Like I said, you have no idea about forensic justification and apparently not even the gospel. Being counted as righteous and being righteous are two different things. And don't call me hateful you jerk. You are the most hateful and divisive poster on this board.

Once again, you cannot actually address the substance of anything I posted which only highlights the weakness of your position.

• You cannot explain how saints can be blameless and pure yet still be sinners.
  
  
• You cannot explain how one can be a new creation and all things become new while still being the same sinner you ever were.
  
  
• You cannot demonstrate how that Christ died for us we WERE sinners according to Romans 5:8. "Were" implies a change in sstatus.
  
  
• You cannot provide ONE Scripture from the New Testament where Christians are identified as sinners.
  

I understand forensic justification just fine. I understand the difference beween legal and moral justification, st worm. I understand the difference beween imputed and imparted righteousness. I understand that we are declared righteous, not made rigteous. I understand that righteousness was imputed to us as it was to Abraham. I also know that justification changes my status from guilty to innocent.

The problem is that there is more in play than only justification. There is more the Bible has to say about what being born again means than justification. Justification is only one part of it.

I also understand that if being sinner is wrapped in what we do, then being righteous would be wrapped in what we do as well, but justification is by faith not by works. Your works do not make you sinner. Being saint, pure and blameless is based upon the finished work on the cross, not on what you do or don't do.

A sinner is one who is in Adam not in Christ. When you are born again, you are no longer a member of Adam's race, you are no longer idenitied with Adam; you are identified with Christ.

Sins do not make you a sinner anymore that good deeds make you righteous. If a person is still a sinner, he does not know Christ.

You are clueless. Paul says I AM the chief of SINNERS, not I was the chief of sinners and not that I used to be the chief of sinners. You really need to get your money back from that correspondence Bible study course.

sw