irishcowboy Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 Does that pastoral authority that God gave to them extend to EVERY religion? What about the priests who "God" put in charge of the boys who were sexually molested? Extreme? Yes. I'm sorry. Which is why it's better we all just keep our opinions to ---> ...on these issues of uncertainty. to those that much is given, much will be required..... those priest will suffer a greater judgement then some one that has not been placed in a position of authority... a pew warmer will be required less for doing the same thing, for one that little is given, little will be required... HOWEVER.... is a pew warmer really serving the Lord, or taking just taking up a spot that could be used for a new believer, or a non-believer? now, again we look, what rewards do we get when we get to heaven? a pew warmer, maybe none, a pastor/priest, could be many...... or maybe none..... the Bible tells us we are to respect those in authority over us, even Daniel did, he respected and honored the possition of the king, even though he would not bow down to the statue(s) or king...... even as he was being thrown into the den of lions, he spoke kindly of the king and then as he was being brought out..... the same with shadrac, mishac and abednego...... very respectful to the king..... David, respected the Lord so much, that when David was called down on the carpet by Nathan, he respected Nathan (God's prophet) to know that Nathan spoke the truth, and he repented with a contrite heart...... i can give examples all though, during the New Church all the apostles spoke, and then James stood up and said, I THUS JUDGE, and they all sat down and honored the new church pastor...... we must honor those in authority.... they may be wrong, but they are in the position...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 another thing i would like to point out to ray and to none... the pastor's decision may have as much to do with loving and protecting ray by NOT placing him in temptation's path as it does protecting others from a potentially harmful situation should ray slip. i have no idea what ray's past is, so it may not even be an issue of protecting others at all. but the pastor has some responsibility here towards ray, and if he placed him in a ministry which might cause him to stumble at some point, God would be holding the pastor accountable for that. ...which is a perfectly logical answer and one that undoubtedly came from your heart. I would have never butted in had more answers been like that. then can you agree that maybe the pastor was acting according to God's will, even without us knowing the motivation with which he did so? as for the priests who molested children, again, you may want to consider... if the diocese or whoever makes those appointments puts one of those child molesters back in a position of leadership (putting them in a position of authority over the children), the diocese, or the bishop, or whoever makes the appointment is putting the priest BACK into a position which may cause him to stumble... and which subsequently might bring devastating harm to another child. God spares us the ETERNAL consequences of our past when we repent. but He does NOT spare us the earthly consequences of our actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senerhu Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 I heard a sermon from my assitant pastor the other day that church should be a hospital for sinners and not a hotel for saints. IF this is true, he should love me back no matter what my past. BUT, when meeting him one on one to share and confess my faults, hurts, habits and hang-ups. He says I Love you but you can not particapte in this area of service of the church. Now I feel like I'm in the movie Beauty and the Beast and I can't go into the West Wing. He has judged me for something I'm not. I have been advised that i could take legal action but I don't want to go there. Why do people put boundaries on Gods unconditonal love when I have done everything to get right with God by confessing my sins so that healing can begin. I'm not sure if I want to be at this church anymore because they love me but.... God Loves me and there is not but just love How would respond if someone told you they loved you but...... Ray, the church is NOT a hospital for sinners. Your pastor's theology of the church is askew. The church, is in fact, a place for the saints of G-d to be trained in the work of the ministry. But you are correct in that your pastor should love you regardless of your past. Beyond that, your post is nebulous. We're you wanting to serve in some capacity in your church, as a deacon or something? If that's the case, then maybe your local church constitution has bylaws that may prohibit someone who is, for example, divorced, from holding such an office. And some churches may prohibit a non-member or non-baptized member from participating in Communion. I don't agree with this, I am simply saying that some churches have their own brand of legalism. This has nothing to do with love, but with the rules of your particular church. Taking legal action against your church? That's not advised; it is contrary to G-d's Word about taking your brother to court. that just flabbergasts me! Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick . If the church is only a place for the saints as you say, why would a pastor give an altar call to the sinners to repent and accept Christ as their savior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 If anyone has read Corrie Ten Boom's book about her and her families treatment at the hands of the Nazis and how her sister died in a concentration camp and after WW2, one of the Nazi soldiers who had a part in her sisters death, came to a Church Corrie was speaking at. The ex Nazi soldier came up to Corrie Ten Boom after the service and spoke to her telling her he'd become a Born Again Christian and held out his hand to shake hers. Corrie stood looking at this man who had callously overseen her sisters death and the evil treatment of others at the camp. Corrie felt hatred towards this man and disgust...she suddenly felt a warm sensation flowing through her arm and her arm moved forward, offering her hand as it did so. The ex Nazi soldier and Corrie Ten Boom held hands with warmth and love and forgiveness. This was clearly a Supernatural act of love. If the priests who molested boys in their care have asked for forgiveness and are showing proof of it, should they be let back into caring of children? Do they desreve that right? Or should they stay away from temptation? We humans obviously have a hard tome deciding that..I wonder how Jesus would respond to it. The issue of child molestation is a serious one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senerhu Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 If anyone has read Corrie Ten Boom's book about her and her families treatment at the hands of the Nazis and how her sister died in a concentration camp and after WW2, one of the Nazi soldiers who had a part in her sisters death, came to a Church Corrie was speaking at. The ex Nazi soldier came up to Corrie Ten Boom after the service and spoke to her telling her he'd become a Born Again Christian and held out his hand to shake hers. Corrie stood looking at this man who had callously overseen her sisters death and the evil treatment of others at the camp. Corrie felt hatred towards this man and disgust...she suddenly felt a warm sensation flowing through her arm and her arm moved forward, offering her hand as it did so. The ex Nazi soldier and Corrie Ten Boom held hands with warmth and love and forgiveness. This was clearly a Supernatural act of love. If the priests who molested boys in their care have asked for forgiveness and are showing proof of it, should they be let back into caring of children? Do they desreve that right? Or should they stay away from temptation? We humans obviously have a hard tome deciding that..I wonder how Jesus would respond to it. The issue of child molestation is a serious one. Paul persecuted the Christians but God saw fit for him to become one of the greatest religous leaders. Most of the Scripture that people here are quoting today is from a man who a lot of these people today wouldn't trust to be in that position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 not entirely accurate senerhu. there are many, many wonderful men (and women) of God who have a sordid past and serve in the ministry. that didn't end with saul's transformation to paul. it continues to this very day. here's the thing we need to understand. WE don't dictate what area of the ministry we will serve in. WE should be humble enough to willingly serve wherever God would have us, even if it's not where we want to be. and WE need to understand that if it is GOD'S will for us to serve in the area of ministry where WE want to be, HE will open the doors and make it happen. if all doors are closed to that area, do we have the right to blame the door guards? let God's will be done, not our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senerhu Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 not entirely accurate senerhu. there are many, many wonderful men (and women) of God who have a sordid past and serve in the ministry. that didn't end with saul's transformation to paul. it continues to this very day. here's the thing we need to understand. WE don't dictate what area of the ministry we will serve in. WE should be humble enough to willingly serve wherever God would have us, even if it's not where we want to be. and WE need to understand that if it is GOD'S will for us to serve in the area of ministry where WE want to be, HE will open the doors and make it happen. if all doors are closed to that area, do we have the right to blame the door guards? let God's will be done, not our own. I agree exactly with that LadyC. In reading Ray's original post though, I didn't see where he wanted to serve in an authoritative position, but that he just wanted to be a member of the congregation. Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 senerhu, i had to go back and review the OP to make sure. i think you did miss something... He says I Love you but you can not particapte in this area of service of the church. that apparently led most of us to the understanding that he was seeking to be involved in some specific area of ministry, and ray hasn't indicated otherwise in his responses to others here. i don't know what area of ministry it would be in, whether it is one of authority or not, because he didn't give any specifics. but clearly the pastor feels that it would be unwise, for whatever reasons, to put him in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Your right I have not mentioned the spefics because there are enough people hear that know my testiomony and have read it in the other thread. And I always mixed reviews. So I'm trying to generalize everything. Ray - Since you mentioned your testimony was public knowledge on this board, I looked through your previous posts to see what you were referring to. After seeing this, I very highly recommend you submit yourself to your pastor. If you take this to court, I can only see the entire church getting damaged through this. I commend this word to you: We have the right to have no rights apart from Christ Himself; "for whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25: John 15:5). (reference the second line in my siggy) Jesus said we had to take up our cross daily and follow him. Why a cross? The cross was an instrument of death, designed for criminals. We are all guilty of sin; consequently, we all need to die to our flesh. And the Lord will "custom design" our death specific to the weaknesses and guilt of our flesh. So I encourage you: will you die to your flesh? Will you die to your needs and wants? Will you allow the Lord's discipline to work in your life? Do you love the Lord enough to lay down your dreams? Guard yourself against pride, brother. Please. It will only harm you, and possibly others along with you. Allow this discipline to continue to work Christ's perfection into your life. It's more than just "your past". We all need our pride broken once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senerhu Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 senerhu, i had to go back and review the OP to make sure. i think you did miss something... He says I Love you but you can not particapte in this area of service of the church. that apparently led most of us to the understanding that he was seeking to be involved in some specific area of ministry, and ray hasn't indicated otherwise in his responses to others here. i don't know what area of ministry it would be in, whether it is one of authority or not, because he didn't give any specifics. but clearly the pastor feels that it would be unwise, for whatever reasons, to put him in that area. I read where Ray said this... He did point out to me how I'm serving in other areas of the church and try to comfort me and be supportive of my issues. I agree with you that the Lord will open doors and that man can't force them. I have to think that if Ray does go to another church with a repentent heart, knowing that he has confessed to Christ his sin, and that that sin has been forgiven, that there would be no need for him to confess his past sins to the new pastor unless the pastor specifically asked him about his background. But in Paul's situation, the Christians of the time knew of Paul's past and still sought guidance from him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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