Salvation

[Guest ChemoAngel]

Hi All,

This has become a rather hot topic between myself and a friend an d I could use a little more insight. I must admit that on the surface this verse and a few others seem to be saying that baptism is directly related to the remission of sins, but I just can not justify it with the Bible teaching that salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ and that remission of sins is only through the shed blood of Christ and not through baptism or works of any kind. Can someone shed some added light into the topic.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

ChemoAngel

[Redefine_Me]

Hi All,

This has become a rather hot topic between myself and a friend an d I could use a little more insight. I must admit that on the surface this verse and a few others seem to be saying that baptism is directly related to the remission of sins, but I just can not justify it with the Bible teaching that salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ and that remission of sins is only through the shed blood of Christ and not through baptism or works of any kind. Can someone shed some added light into the topic.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

ChemoAngel

Based on the verse you sited, my comments are that repentence and baptism are two seperate events. First the repentence, then the baptism. Repentence is within, and the baptism is the outward display of the inward cleansing. I'm sure someone else will come along and answer this MUCH better than I have

Edited August 11, 2007 by Redefine_Me

[NewsWatcher]

ChemoAngel,

I wonder if the be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, is the physical or is it spiritual?

[mikerunk]

Well the way I understand it, and granted I am will to admit I could be wrong, when John Baptized people it was a symbolic nature of how christ would was away are sins through his death and ressurection. We continue to do this as a way of honoring what christ did for use on the cross. Its the same as taken communion (eatting bread and drink grape juice, if I got that right). However we don't have to do it because what is more important is are faith and belief that christ is are lord and savior and that he died and arose three days later, that only through him can we find salvation.

That is my understanding course I could be wrong.

[Guest speaker]

Here are some more thoughts for your consideration:

To find out how people in the first century church became Christians, and therefore how people today become Christians, read ALL of the book of Acts to get the COMPLETE picture. Then, read the letters of Paul, James, Peter, John and the letter to the Hebrews for further teaching about this.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9). Paul does not does not say that man has nothing to do to be saved. He teaches instead that even when man has obeyed God's commands, he is still saved by grace, for man cannot do anything of which he may rightly boast (Luke 17:10).

One cannot be saved by the works of the flesh, for the end of all who do them is spiritual death (Gal. 5:19-21). One cannot be saved by man-made religion, for such produces vain worship (Matt. 15:9). Man cannot be saved by the works of the Law of Moses, because it provided for no permanent forgiveness(Heb. 10:1-10).

But even when one obeys the Gospel of Christ, he is saved by grace. This is true because (1) grace drew the plan for man's redemption, (2) grace gave the sacrifice for man's sin by Christ's death on the cross, and (3) grace caused the terms of pardon to be announced to all nations through the preaching of the Gospel. Everything that man does to be saved is done because divine grace makes it possible for man to accept, believe and obey.

When a man believes, he believes because God sent a faith-producing message (Mark 16:15, 16 and Rom. 10:10-17) to a creature to whom God gave the power to think and believe. If a man comes to repentance, it is only because God's goodness led him to do so (Rom. 2:4).

Peter was able to confess "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" only because Christ's heavenly Father revealed that truth to Peter (Matt. 16:17). Men today make the same confession, not by their own wisdom, but because God's Word has taught them that Jesus is the Christ.

As for baptism, this is not something of which the person receiving it may boast. The physical work is done by the baptizer, not the baptized. And the spiritual work is done by God (Titus 3:5-7).

Even when we consider good works, boasting is excluded, "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained (prepared) that we should walk in them: (Eph. 2:10).

The book of Acts, letters of Paul, James, Peter, John and to the Hebrews reveal the complete picture of what is done for one to become a Christian. God has commanded those who desire salvation to believe, repent of their sins, confess Christ, be baptized, and live a life of faith given to good works. Clearly, there is something for man to do.

But it is just as certain that when man has done all, he is still saved by grace, the unmerited or undeserved favor of God. A man's salvation is begun, worked out, and consumated by the grace of God even though man's activity is required.

Therefore, Christ does not say that we may earn our salvation so that it becomes a matter of wages paid. Instead He says, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2:10).

I pray these things will help guide you to a greater understanding of God's will.

In Christ our Lord,

Speaker

Edited August 15, 2007 by speaker

[Kansasdad]

Here are some more thoughts for your consideration:

To find out how people in the first century church became Christians, and therefore how people today become Christians, read ALL of the book of Acts to get the COMPLETE picture. Then, read the letters of Paul, James, Peter, John and the letter to the Hebrews for further teaching about this.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9). Paul does not does not say that man has nothing to do to be saved. He teaches instead that even when man has obeyed God's commands, he is still saved by grace, for man cannot do anything of which he may rightly boast (Luke 17:10).

One cannot be saved by the works of the flesh, for the end of all who do them is spiritual death (Gal. 5:19-21). One cannot be saved by man-made religion, for such produces vain worship (Matt. 15:9). Man cannot be saved by the works of the Law of Moses, because it provided for no permanent forgiveness(Heb. 10:1-10).

But even when one obeys the Gospel of Christ, he is saved by grace. This is true because (1) grace drew the plan for man's redemption, (2) grace gave the sacrifice for man's sin by Christ's death on the cross, and (3) grace caused the terms of pardon to be announced to all nations through the preaching of the Gospel. Everything that man does to be saved is done because divine grace makes it possible for man to accept, believe and obey.

When a man believes, he believes because God sent a faith-producing message (Mark 16:15, 16 and Rom. 10:10-17) to a creature to whom God gave the power to think and believe. If a man comes to repentance, it is only because God's goodness led him to do so (Rom. 2:4).

Peter was able to confess "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" only because Christ's heavenly Father revealed that truth to Peter (Matt. 16:17). Men today make the same confession, not by their own wisdom, but because God's Word has taught them that Jesus is the Christ.

As for baptism, this is not something of which the person receiving it may boast. The physical work is done by the baptizer, not the baptized. And the spiritual work is done by God (Titus 3:5-7).

Even when we consider good works, boasting is excluded, "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained (prepared) that we should walk in them: (Eph. 2:10).

The book of Acts, letters of Paul, James, Peter, John and to the Hebrews reveal the complete picture of what is done for one to become a Christian. God has commanded those who desire salvation to believe, repent of their sins, confess Christ, be baptized, and live a life of faith given to good works. Clearly, there is something for man to do.

But it is just as certain that when man has done all, he is still saved by grace, the unmerited or undeserved favor of God. A man's salvation is begun, worked out, and consumated by the grace of God even though man's activity is required.

Therefore, Christ does not say that we may earn our salvation so that it becomes a matter of wages paid. Instead He says, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2:10).

I pray these things will help guide you to a greater understanding of God's will.

In Christ our Lord,

Speaker

Excellent job Speaker!

[EricH]

Moved from the Apologetics Forum to the Doctrinal Questions Forum

[tsth]

Just something to consider in regard to baptism and salvation:

What was John the Baptist's purpose?

John's message was preparing the people for a life committed to Christ Jesus....you cannot follow Jesus without true repentance And with that also came the baptism an act of outward example of obedience. The baptism of repentance must ALWAYS be the forerunner of a true conversion. Read some of these passages from the Word in regard to John:

Malachi 4:6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."

Luke 1:17

And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Here is where Jesus addresses those who would not receive the baptism of repentance, and makes the distinction between those who did, and those who would not:

Matthew 21:28 "What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.' 29 "'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 "Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go. 31 "Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Luke 7:24 After John's messengers left, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? 25 If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. 26 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 27 This is the one about whom it is written: "'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.' 28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29 (All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. 30 But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

You cannot have a true point of salvation, without repentance, and this was the message of John the Baptist that prepared the people for a life committed to following Christ Jesus.

Here's the other thread:

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry943742

In His Love,

Suzanne

[st. Worm]

Hi All,

This has become a rather hot topic between myself and a friend an d I could use a little more insight. I must admit that on the surface this verse and a few others seem to be saying that baptism is directly related to the remission of sins, but I just can not justify it with the Bible teaching that salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ and that remission of sins is only through the shed blood of Christ and not through baptism or works of any kind. Can someone shed some added light into the topic.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

ChemoAngel

The two truths, that salvation is by grace through faith and the salvific value of baptism as described in the Bible, are not contradictory in the least. Baptism can hardly be described as a work since through it we receive the washing of rebirth and are born again through water and the Spirit by the power of the Word. Baptism is a means of grace and through it we are not the actors but the recipients.

Of course the problem with the baptist view of baptism is that it is nothing but a good work with that doctrine. In addition the baptist view gives rise to a whole set of heterodox views regarding sin such as the mysterious and non-biblical "age of accountability" which says we aren't really sinning unless we are aware of it or something like that and the heretical Pelagian view of sin which denies our connection to Adam and original sin, not to mention ignoring or having to explain away several important verses related to baptism. And it goes downhill from there until salvation becomes not a gracious act of God but a result of our "free will decision" which is then followed by a self promoting proclamation baptism when we describe to the congregation how smart we are to have chosen salvation just before being dunked.

sw

[Great Expectations]

Baptism demonstrates submision of our will to the baptiser.

Though salvation is not of our works it must be our will to surrender to it.