Can sin be rationalized away?

[Vickilynn]

I brought this idea over from another thread titled, 'Naming the Name of Christ, And Wickedness'

Can it without being in opposition to logic therefore in the absolute sense? Can sin be rationalized away? Can the breaking of God's Law be rationalized away by a christian at some point in their sanctification process?

Shalom,

Yes, yes and yes.

We can convince ourselves that our sin is not sin.

We can believe a lie and be damned.

We are told to be vigilant that there are false teachers and we should not be led astray.

Yes, we, as Christians, can rationalize, excuse, deny, ignore and otherwise harden our hearts to the truth of our sin. That's why we have so many "carnal Christians."

[firehill]

All people have a tremendous ability to rationalize.

Yes, they do.

A case in point is the way people treat each other here on the boards. They attempt to excuse treating people rudely by saying they are "defending the honor of God". So they end up breaking God's commandments regarding how we are to treat others to defend Him.

It seems that we are still speaking on the wrong terms though you have given an example of how one can 'rationalize' away...

Would God rationalize away how we should treat our brothers? No. Why? Would He be irrational if He did?

Let me see if I can't try to adjust my OP to make more sense of what I'm trying to say.

[Guest Biblicist]

Ohhh! I get it, would GOD rationalize our sin?

In a word, NO.

But He would not condemn us for it, instead He would lovingly and gently guide us to a Biblical understanding of our sin, whether through study or a close personal mentor, to guide us on the path to righteousness.

John has some beautiful pictures of how God/Jesus ministers to people who are living in Sin. The Samaritan Woman is a classic!

[firehill]

Ohhh! I get it, would GOD rationalize our sin?

In a word, NO.

But He would not condemn us for it, instead He would lovingly and gently guide us to a Biblical understanding of our sin, whether through study or a close personal mentor, to guide us on the path to righteousness.

John has some beautiful pictures of how God/Jesus ministers to people who are living in Sin. The Samaritan Woman is a classic!

Good post above.

Let's say God commanded you something personaly and you understood what He commanded you. Could you then actualy logicaly, rationlize away what He commanded you to do or not to do? If He couldn't, how could you if you understood what He told you? Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Guest Biblicist]

You are very correct, if God does not rationalize our sin, then we can not rationalize our 'known' sin away.

God is the only one who knows if we clearly understand our sin though. No human can know that.

Look at the woman who was caught in adultery and brought to Jesus for judgement. [John 8] The Pharisees judged her for what they saw her doing. What was on the outside, they had already condemned her to death by stoning. Jesus didn't condemn her, because He knew exactly where her heart was. He knew what she needed to learn that her lifestyle was sin and she needed to turn from it. She may have rationalized her sin, but when Jesus pointed out to her in a loving fashion, she turned from it. What a wonderful Lord we serve!

It feels so good to have this conversation with you, firehill, I hate being at odds with you.

[patricia1]

You are very correct, if God does not rationalize our sin, then we can not rationalize our 'known' sin away.

God is the only one who knows if we clearly understand our sin though. No human can know that.

Look at the woman who was caught in adultery and brought to Jesus for judgement. [John 8] The Pharisees judged her for what they saw her doing. What was on the outside, they had already condemned her to death by stoning. Jesus didn't condemn her, because He knew exactly where her heart was. He knew what she needed to learn that her lifestyle was sin and she needed to turn from it. She may have rationalized her sin, but when Jesus pointed out to her in a loving fashion, she turned from it. What a wonderful Lord we serve!

It feels so good to have this conversation with you, firehill, I hate being at odds with you.

I think we all can say that " I did this because of that" But it does not make the sin better or go away. What makes us not want to sin? Is it Love for the Father? Coming to Christ is saying here I am the way I am. The humility of knowing one needs Him is as mind boggling as the fact that He was willing to die for us. But with rationalization comes the lack of the need for repentance, That person has to accept responsibility for his/her sin. Then loving forgiveness is obtained. Like the Samaritan woman Who knows why she had seven husbands...sex with seven men..to survive in those days one needed to be with a man...was she cast lots for... unable to have children and since that was a curse back then was considered of no use? Was she heading on a journey down prostitution? who knows. Jesus did not point out the reason but ministered in such a loving way that made her want to change..Same with the adulterous woman... I can blame my parents...my circumstances...my health but chances are until I take blame for my own actions I will not get anywhere. Did Not God Our Father get angry because adam, eve tried to pass the buck , adam...even tried to put a guilt trip on God.. The Woman YOU gave me... then Eve The serpent MADE ME. God was not pleased. I agree not all things are black and white but I would rather be in Gods perfect will as opposed to his permissive will

[Guest Biblicist]

You are very correct, if God does not rationalize our sin, then we can not rationalize our 'known' sin away.

God is the only one who knows if we clearly understand our sin though. No human can know that.

Look at the woman who was caught in adultery and brought to Jesus for judgement. [John 8] The Pharisees judged her for what they saw her doing. What was on the outside, they had already condemned her to death by stoning. Jesus didn't condemn her, because He knew exactly where her heart was. He knew what she needed to learn that her lifestyle was sin and she needed to turn from it. She may have rationalized her sin, but when Jesus pointed out to her in a loving fashion, she turned from it. What a wonderful Lord we serve!

It feels so good to have this conversation with you, firehill, I hate being at odds with you.

I think we all can say that " I did this because of that" But it does not make the sin better or go away. What makes us not want to sin? Is it Love for the Father? Coming to Christ is saying here I am the way I am. The humility of knowing one needs Him is as mind boggling as the fact that He was willing to die for us. But with rationalization comes the lack of the need for repentance, That person has to accept responsibility for his/her sin. Then loving forgiveness is obtained. Like the Samaritan woman Who knows why she had seven husbands...sex with seven men..to survive in those days one needed to be with a man...was she cast lots for... unable to have children and since that was a curse back then was considered of no use? Was she heading on a journey down prostitution? who knows. Jesus did not point out the reason but ministered in such a loving way that made her want to change..Same with the adulterous woman... I can blame my parents...my circumstances...my health but chances are until I take blame for my own actions I will not get anywhere. Did Not God Our Father get angry because adam, eve tried to pass the buck , adam...even tried to put a guilt trip on God.. The Woman YOU gave me... then Eve The serpent MADE ME. God was not pleased. I agree not all things are black and white but I would rather be in Gods perfect will as opposed to his permissive will

Honey you are in both!

Good post!

[eric]

sw.

Sorry eric but your statement that "I probably sin ... ", indicates a dangerous delusion about sin on your part that I see from so many posters here. When we look at the Law at full strength and its impossible demands honestly we can never say that we probably are sinning. The Christian life is one of constant repentance. Law keeping is simply not possible. That idea is the heresy of Pelagianism. As sinners we always fall into denial about the sins we commit in thought, word and deed whether it be through the negative prohibitions or the positive requirements of the Law. We cannot even begin to identify the specific ways in which we fail to keep the Law each minute of our existance. Frankly any discussion of this type that fails to understand that is a total delusion in itself.

If you are going to quote me brother,, please print the whole sentence. The 'probably' was used in conjunction with anybody else. It has nothing to do weith Pelagianism. I will rephrase it for you, so you may understand>>> I sin on a daily basis, probably, as much as anyone else.

We have had on numerous occasions, youg christians asking the same old question, "is premarital sex a sin". the answer is....yes....... Then comes the what ifs, and the buts. Then comes the rationalising or the squaring off, Yeah but we are going to be married soon. No excuse. if you are living in sin. you stop.....now....... if you know you are sinning. If you die before you repent and die in your sins, your name is erased from the Lamb's book of life.

As Shiloh has pointed, there is no such thing as being a christian for someone who is deliberately openly sinning. Wannabes don't count.

[Vickilynn]

Let's say God commanded you something personaly and you understood what He commanded you. Could you then actualy logicaly, rationlize away what He commanded you to do or not to do? If He couldn't, how could you if you understood what He told you? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Shalom,

Hmmm, that's different than what the OP said before.

Once you KNOW that G-d told you to do something, you either obey or not. However, I do believe that people can rationalize ANYTHING and tell themselves lies.

I ministered to a gal who told me that she and this guy were living together as man and wife, but had not been married. I asked her if she believed that was a sin or not. She said she DID at first when she prayed about it, but after awhile, it seemed just fine.

Yes, we humans can convinced ourselves of anything and rationalize anything. And, according to the Scriptures, people can harden their hearts against the voice of the Holy Spirit and rationalize their sin away.

[Vickilynn]

I agree not all things are black and white but I would rather be in Gods perfect will as opposed to his permissive will

Shalom Patricia,

Scripturally, there are not "perfect" and "permissive" wills of G-d. That is man's doctrine. G-d's will for our lives is in His Word.