Legalism

[Everlasting127]

Wouldn't the concept also relate to God's recompense. For even the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.

Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Legalisim - Just as the word measures infinately, so it embraces the meaning in it's fullness.

Luk 11:36 If thy whole body therefore [be] full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

God's love ministers to every level of faith and responsibility. Therefore we put away the old/childish things in our lives, and accept our portion of the new understanding, which in wrought in the new song, and the Gospel of Jesus.

Everlasting,

Moon over Key Biscayne

[patricia1]

Wouldn't the concept also relate to God's recompense. For even the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.

Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Legalisim - Just as the word measures infinately, so it embraces the meaning in it's fullness.

Luk 11:36 If thy whole body therefore [be] full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

God's love ministers to every level of faith and responsibility. Therefore we put away the old/childish things in our lives, and accept our portion of the new understanding, which in wrought in the new song, and the Gospel of Jesus.

Everlasting,

Moon over Key Biscayne

To me legalism is the opposite of Gods Grace. It binds one from freedom using a set of rules made by others, they usually enjoy religion as oppose to the freedom The Holy Spirit and Gods Mercy and Grace provides. It is also scripture without life, the letter of the law without living water to it. It is logos , absent of Rhema. It produces Ungodly fruit such as contentions , rebellion, splits. It cost the apostles their lives. It brought Jesus to the cross....Its only my opinion though but paul dicusses it all over his writings but he does not use the term legalistic. Pop it into google. I have seen it try to control churches and pastors. it is self oriented, and self puposeful and everybody is wrong if nobody agrees with those who have a similar view...Many times their eyes are opened to truth and it is wonderful to see the transformation. to see. I think we all have some one we do not understand the Fullness Of Gods Grace. We just all have it at different degrees. Patricia

[patricia1]

Wouldn't the concept also relate to God's recompense. For even the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.

Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Legalisim - Just as the word measures infinately, so it embraces the meaning in it's fullness.

Luk 11:36 If thy whole body therefore [be] full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

God's love ministers to every level of faith and responsibility. Therefore we put away the old/childish things in our lives, and accept our portion of the new understanding, which in wrought in the new song, and the Gospel of Jesus.

Everlasting,

Moon over Key Biscayne

To me legalism is the opposite of Gods Grace. It binds one from freedom using a set of rules made by others, they usually enjoy religion as oppose to the freedom The Holy Spirit and Gods Mercy and Grace provides. It is also scripture without life, the letter of the law without living water to it. It is logos , absent of Rhema. It produces Ungodly fruit such as contentions , rebellion, splits. It cost the apostles their lives. It brought Jesus to the cross....Its only my opinion though but paul dicusses it all over his writings but he does not use the term legalistic. Pop it into google. I have seen it try to control churches and pastors. it is self oriented, and self puposeful and everybody is wrong if nobody agrees with those who do not have a similar view...Many times their eyes are opened to truth and it is wonderful to see the transformation. I think we all have some when we do not understand the Fullness Of Gods Grace and Mercy! We just all have it at different degrees. Patricia

[tsth]

To overthrow God's ways, by a man-made production of "righteousness". There is no such thing as man-made righteousness.

Mark 7:8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

Luke 16:15 He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

Romans 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

(So, how is today's Christian supposed to know if he/she is establishing his own righteousness? Or, are they submitting to God's?)

If we are not partaking of God's Word constantly, to see what His thoughts/ways are, then we are in danger of establishing "our own". I'm afraid this is what most of Christianity has done today. We claim to know God and Jesus, yet we spend no consistent time with Him, in His Word......so how could we know HIM?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Shortstop]

I was thinking of legalism in terms of the flesh/man. It would be the equivalent of one who obeys the laws of the land, only because they HAVE to, to keep from going to jail, not because they truly WANT to, because they love their fellow man. In other words, if they didn't have the laws of the land, then what would they do? Would they then steal, kill, covet, etc., because no one was looking and it didn't matter? Probably.

Would you break the laws, (if you could)?

I think of the laws/commandments of God in the same manner, does one follow them, merely as laws/rules, due to the fear of going to prison/hell, or do they desire the commandments/laws of God, because Jesus is in them, and they love the commandments, because the commandments are also the act of love toward their brothers?

1Jo 4:18

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Legalism is the law without true love....that is why the Pharisee's were so many times labeled as hypocrites, because when nobody was looking, they broke the very laws they instructed the people to follow, plus they began to add "their own", rather than God's. They didn't obey, because they didn't "love", God's commands were burdensome to them.

1 John 5: 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Good start. I think it is more than that though.

A true legalist is like a Pharisee who desires to earn righteousness and thus makes up new laws like the Mishnah, which were never God's laws, in order to be able to present a righteous appearance by obeying them. God's true laws are not harsh even though they may be difficult. They are not binding ones soul though they may be tough to reach perfection in. In fact because God's laws reveal the fallibility of humanity versus the holiness of God, we can never perfectly obey God's Laws without Christ. God's laws are about the soul, spirit and heart. It's not about automated actions. A true legalist prefers the automated actions that give an appearance of righteousness, rather than the struggle to change ones heart to be like Christ.

To quote OopsMartin...

A true legalist prefers the automated actions that give an appearance of righteousness, rather than the struggle to change ones heart to be like Christ.

Can you say, "hit the nail on the head?" Yep....

Edited August 23, 2007 by Shortstop

[TM75]

I was thinking of legalism in terms of the flesh/man. It would be the equivalent of one who obeys the laws of the land, only because they HAVE to, to keep from going to jail, not because they truly WANT to, because they love their fellow man. In other words, if they didn't have the laws of the land, then what would they do? Would they then steal, kill, covet, etc., because no one was looking and it didn't matter? Probably.

Would you break the laws, (if you could)?

I think of the laws/commandments of God in the same manner, does one follow them, merely as laws/rules, due to the fear of going to prison/hell, or do they desire the commandments/laws of God, because Jesus is in them, and they love the commandments, because the commandments are also the act of love toward their brothers?

1Jo 4:18

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Good start. I think it is more than that though.

A true legalist is like a Pharisee who desires to earn righteousness and thus makes up new laws like the Mishnah, which were never God's laws, in order to be able to present a righteous appearance by obeying them. God's true laws are not harsh even though they may be difficult. They are not binding ones soul though they may be tough to reach perfection in. In fact because God's laws reveal the fallibility of humanity versus the holiness of God, we can never perfectly obey God's Laws without Christ. God's laws are about the soul, spirit and heart. It's not about automated actions. A true legalist prefers the automated actions that give an appearance of righteousness, rather than the struggle to change ones heart to be like Christ.

To quote OopsMartin...

A true legalist prefers the automated actions that give an appearance of righteousness, rather than the struggle to change ones heart to be like Christ.

Yes I would like to answer this with Paul to tell you exactly who is not a legalist, one who follows God's commandments and they are not grievous. Only through grace can a man actually not covet, according to Colosions 3:5.

In chapter 2, we understand that men's doctrines seperate us from Christ and keep us from the fulfillment of Christ's law.

Colosians2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from doctrine of the world: Why as though ye yet lived in the world, are ye led with traditions of them that say?

21 Touch not; Taste not; Handle not:

22 which all perish with the using of them, and are after the commandments, and doctrines of men:

23 which things have the similitude of wisdom in chosen holiness, and humbleness, and in that they spare not the body, and do the flesh no worship unto his need. (W.Tyndale New Testament)

I agree that Christ is a singular congregation and not of a monstrous division of sects (how many baptist divisions are there?)

There is such seperation from the philosophy of men

[Smalcald]

How do we encourage holiness without being called legalistic? Should Christians as a group look and act differently from society at large? Is Church discipline ever needed in today

[tsth]

How do we encourage holiness without being called legalistic? Should Christians as a group look and act differently from society at large? Is Church discipline ever needed in today

[OopsMartin]

How do we encourage holiness without being called legalistic? Should Christians as a group look and act differently from society at large? Is Church discipline ever needed in today

[Smalcald]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.