Healing - again!

[methinkshe]

I really need to know the truth of God's Word concerning physical healing of a miraculous nature - i.e. not healing of vague aches and pains, but healing of injuries that cannot be repaired in any natural way. My 20 yr old son badly fractured his right elbow - he had a fragment from the raidial head pinned which has healed nicely, but a fragment from the capitellar (end of humerus) was too small to be fixed and was therefore excised by the orthopaedic surgeon. He now has severe pain in his right arm and it sometimes locks in position and he has to manually unlock it using his left arm to raise his right arm to shoulder level and then slowly let it down until the elbow joint unlocks, and he can no longer do his work as a carpenter. He has to resort to painkillers just to lead even a semblance of normal life. It would appear that there is also damage to a nerve or something because he gets a lot of referred pain up and down the whole arm. There is only one surgical option open to him - debridement - a process where the rough bone that has resulted from excision of the frament is smoothed so as hopefully to allow a smoother operation of the elbow joint instead of the crunchy, graunching operation he has at present. However the success rate is only 60 - 70% and the improvement if there is one is only temporary so that the operation has to be repeated. Since he is only 20, he must think long and hard about such surgery and how many times it can be repeated and whether it will be successful. My problem is that our Pastor has told my son that he needs to believe God for his full healing and has futher suggested that his claim for compensation is standing in the way of God's healing (the person he was working for at the time of the injury had supplied him with step ladders that had no central brace and which "pancaked" while he was standing on them to paint windows. He was, however, fully insured.) This doesn't seem right to me, not the least because if he were to give up the claim, he has already contracted with the law firm that is representing him to pay their fees and they have already done a huge amount of work. He would not be able to honour that contract if he just dropped the claim.

My understanding of the WHOLE counsel of Scripture is that God can and does heal the body (although more importantly He heals the spirit) but not always and that to "claim" healing as though by right, is presumptuous and doesn't acknowledge God's soveriegnty. Moreover, I think that to be told to examine one's life for things that may be "blocking" God's healing can all too easily lead to condemnation. What if it is not God's will to heal, either at all or even at that time? Joni Erikson wasn't healed and yet look how God has used her in her paraplegic state.

When Peter walked on the water it was in response to Jesus calling him to come. He didn't just decide to "have faith" and jump out of the boat and GO to Jesus. I think that healing is the same: we can pray for healing but we must wait until Jesus personally instructs us to receive healing through faith. Our Pastor seems to think that it is ALWAYS God's will that believers enjoy perfect health and therefore full healing of injuries such as my son's.

I'd be grateful if anyone who has studied the Word of God could help me understand what the Bible REALLY says on this matter and how we should pray.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[kat8585]

This is something I've always wondered about too, so I will be waiting for responses, too. I've heard of people claiming healing then telling people they had been healed. Where do you draw the line between faith and presumption, in this or any other prayer?

How do you know when to accept that it's not god's will, and stop praying for it? How long do you keep praying?

[Leonard]

I cannot find a single instance in Scripture where our Lord told any believer: "Sorry; it's just NOT My will to heal you." Among Jesus' hundreds of healings, there is not an instance where He declined to heal.

According to Isaiah 53 and I Peter 2:24, healing is part of the Atonement. It is as much God's will to heal as it is to save! If you are Calvinist in theology, then you might propose that since you believe God deliberately created some to be damned, then He also created some to be ill, injured, etc. However the Scripture says 'whosoever will' as regards salvation, and since healing is part of the same Covenant, the basis for healing must also be 'whosoever will.'

Still, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it seems despite our believing and prayer, healing doesn't come (or at least is so long in coming we grow weary in the waiting). Sometimes it seems we just get the short end of the stick, and we don't know why.

DEFINITELY pray for healing. Believe God for it. Hold to your confession as long as you can. The decision to seek medical answers can ONLY be made by the one seeking divine healing. God has broad shoulders, and will NOT be angered by your decision.

[Scarletprayers]

I think your post touches on something we have all wondered about. I don't have any more answers than you do, but I will pray for your son.

SP

[methinkshe]

I cannot find a single instance in Scripture where our Lord told any believer: "Sorry; it's just NOT My will to heal you." Among Jesus' hundreds of healings, there is not an instance where He declined to heal.

According to Isaiah 53 and I Peter 2:24, healing is part of the Atonement. It is as much God's will to heal as it is to save! If you are Calvinist in theology, then you might propose that since you believe God deliberately created some to be damned, then He also created some to be ill, injured, etc. However the Scripture says 'whosoever will' as regards salvation, and since healing is part of the same Covenant, the basis for healing must also be 'whosoever will.'

Still, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it seems despite our believing and prayer, healing doesn't come (or at least is so long in coming we grow weary in the waiting). Sometimes it seems we just get the short end of the stick, and we don't know why.

DEFINITELY pray for healing. Believe God for it. Hold to your confession as long as you can. The decision to seek medical answers can ONLY be made by the one seeking divine healing. God has broad shoulders, and will NOT be angered by your decision.

But is the healing of the body always to be received in this life, or is it sometimes only completed in our resurrection bodies? What about Timothy's frequent illnesses? Paul didn't instruct Timothy to pray for a miracle, nor did he suggest that Timothy must in some way be blocking God's healing through something he was or was not doing in his life. All he advised was that Timothy take a little wine for his stomach and his "oft infirmities." And what about my brain-damaged daughter? What am I to conclude about her? She has been a great blessing because of and in spite of her disability, and I praise God that He is working all things for the good even through such a terrible injury as that. But I am not claiming her healing although I often pray for God's healing for her and have seen many improvements: at one time is was thought she would never speak but now she is a real chatterbox, albeit that her speech is indistinct and not easily understood by those who don't know her. And what about Job? He lost health and wealth and family. Yes, God restored his losses to him, but his original family was horribly slaughtered. And they weren't raised from the dead, either. I cannot glean from Scripture that we have a right to expect perfect health in this life. What about all those missionaries to Africa of the 19C who died of disease or were eaten by wild animals or, worse still, by cannibals? What was wrong in their lives that they didn't enjoy perfect health? And I know of a missionary to Malawi who was doing a wonderful work but has recently had to return home because of bowel cancer and has undergone chemotherapy etc. I have just come back from church and again our pastor was preaching that Scripture says all believers if they are in fellowship with the Lord and are giving Him His rightful place in their lives should enjoy perfect health. But I just can't get this from Scripture.

Sorry if I'm just being dumb.

Ruth

[irishcowboy]

It is difficult to fully understand things as this, why a woman with a cancerous growth on her face, which is inoperable, is prayed over and a few days later the growth falls off her face and hits the floor.... and then another time, a young lady has a cancer, and continues to grow worse when every one and their brother prays over her... and she ends up going home to be with the Lord...

lack of faith???

I do not think so....

you see, the young lady was 9 years old, the cancer was growing as such a rate that the chemo and cobolt treatments were not even slowing it down, yet, when her parents told her that they were going to stop the treatments because they were not working, she said no..... because how do we know that God is done working with the doctors...... later, she told her parents, you know, God heals all His Children.... some may receive their healing here on earth, but they all receive it in Heaven.....

We do not fully understand Gods use for each ailment (or injury)

Doris, (who would be 48/49 this year) went home several years back, due to cancer, the radiation and chemo caused her to go totally blind.... while she was in the hospital gettine her treatments, she would go from room to room, ministering to the other patients, and when she lost her eyes, she continued doing so, she would recruit the aid of some one to lead the way to each room...... on one day Donna (her mother) went in to be with her for her daily visit,

and Doris turned and said, Mom, i had a visitor.....

Oh, who was that?

I dont know, he didnt say his name, but he said that i will be going home soom....

later that day the doctor came in and said that there was nothing more that they could do, that she was progressing faster then they can treat.... at first Donna thought maybe the doc or some one else had already been in and given her this news..... Doris said no, cause she could see the one that was there and told her.....

two days later, Donna went in to get Doris and take her home, and Doris said she had another visitor, Donna asked who..... Doris said Jesus, and He told her that her work here was done, and it will not be long.

Donna took her home, one evening, (two days later, thursday evening) while i was talking to Donna,

Donna says I have to go, we have visitors

I said Visitors? at this hour??? ( 1100 pm )

she said yes,

then it hit me..... How Many?

Donna asked Doris, and Doris replyed SEVERAL....

several???? 1 and 2 are messangers and escorts, why several????? several.....

then I knew, so I asked where are they located?

Doris said they were all around her....

I told Donna, that Doris will become very restless shortly, it may last a short time, or a long time, and there is nothing we can do but pray ( the best thing to do that is )... Doris went through a battle, satan had a last chance to try and turn her..... she struggled for about a half hour, and when she was done, Donna asked about the visitors, and she said they were gone, but wanted to take communion........

on friday, Donna called around trying to find a pastor ( starting with Doris' pastor ) and could not find one that would come to the house..... so Donna went and got what was needed, and had communion with Doris, after this, Doris went to sleep and did not wake up again, Sunday evening, her breathing relaxed and her body no longer moved, and then late Tuesday the body stopped.... (we believe she was home Sunday evening, and the body did not know it....

why is a person healed of AIDs which was gotten because of life style, and another that received it through no fault of their own gets it and dies in short time.......

these things we do not know, other then God will use it for Good..... a friend of ours, with four children, had contracted AIDS though life style choices, (full blown AIDS, no longer just HIV ).... un churched, and her children unchurched.... one day her eldest 8 years old, comes up and says, Mom, if you do not take us to church and teach us about Jesus, we will die and go to hell and it will be your fault......

guess what, mom took them to church, and the second week of listening, and asking questions, she acceted Christ, she had hands laid on her, prayed over, anointed, and well, she became a new creation.....

the next time she went to the doc for her regular check up to see how far the AIDS had progressed, they could not find it, not only could they not find the full blown AIDS, but the HIV is not there..... NO WHERE,

she was healed of AIDS, not just remission, for in remission it can still be found that was over two years ago.... witnessed by welll over 500 people for her testamony.....

why did God choose to heal her over some one else that did nothing wrong????? only God knows....

we have seen many things take place, an elderly man that had not been able to get himself up off the floor by himself for well over 10 years, was worshipping and praying, and the Lord had him kneal, and when he was done, he stood up on his own, his knees renewed..... a woman who could not see more then a couple feet in front of her, legally blind, even with glasses images were blurry..... prayed and worshipped before the Lord, had her eyesight renewed..... (these are witnessed first hand by myself and my wife and about 100 other people......)

why some and not others???? this i do not know....

why will one 7 year old child unable to swim be taken from the deep end of the pool, preserved from the death (no one else was around to rescue this child), and then another child 18 years old and able to swim allowed to suffer and die? i do not know.....

why one person will have a bone knitted back together with out medical aid, and another takes forever...... another have his foot run over by an 8000# fork lift (and not wearing steal toe shoes/boots) suffer no ill effects save a bit of swelling, and another stub their toe on a door jam and be in a cast for months???? again I do not know.....

lack of faith???? I do not know..... and do not think so.....

these are question we have to take to the Lord.....

mike

[Carol R]

I cannot find a single instance in Scripture where our Lord told any believer: "Sorry; it's just NOT My will to heal you." Among Jesus' hundreds of healings, there is not an instance where He declined to heal.

According to Isaiah 53 and I Peter 2:24, healing is part of the Atonement. It is as much God's will to heal as it is to save! If you are Calvinist in theology, then you might propose that since you believe God deliberately created some to be damned, then He also created some to be ill, injured, etc. However the Scripture says 'whosoever will' as regards salvation, and since healing is part of the same Covenant, the basis for healing must also be 'whosoever will.'

Still, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it seems despite our believing and prayer, healing doesn't come (or at least is so long in coming we grow weary in the waiting). Sometimes it seems we just get the short end of the stick, and we don't know why.

DEFINITELY pray for healing. Believe God for it. Hold to your confession as long as you can. The decision to seek medical answers can ONLY be made by the one seeking divine healing. God has broad shoulders, and will NOT be angered by your decision.

But is the healing of the body always to be received in this life, or is it sometimes only completed in our resurrection bodies? What about Timothy's frequent illnesses? Paul didn't instruct Timothy to pray for a miracle, nor did he suggest that Timothy must in some way be blocking God's healing through something he was or was not doing in his life. All he advised was that Timothy take a little wine for his stomach and his "oft infirmities." And what about my brain-damaged daughter? What am I to conclude about her? She has been a great blessing because of and in spite of her disability, and I praise God that He is working all things for the good even through such a terrible injury as that. But I am not claiming her healing although I often pray for God's healing for her and have seen many improvements: at one time is was thought she would never speak but now she is a real chatterbox, albeit that her speech is indistinct and not easily understood by those who don't know her. And what about Job? He lost health and wealth and family. Yes, God restored his losses to him, but his original family was horribly slaughtered. And they weren't raised from the dead, either. I cannot glean from Scripture that we have a right to expect perfect health in this life. What about all those missionaries to Africa of the 19C who died of disease or were eaten by wild animals or, worse still, by cannibals? What was wrong in their lives that they didn't enjoy perfect health? And I know of a missionary to Malawi who was doing a wonderful work but has recently had to return home because of bowel cancer and has undergone chemotherapy etc. I have just come back from church and again our pastor was preaching that Scripture says all believers if they are in fellowship with the Lord and are giving Him His rightful place in their lives should enjoy perfect health. But I just can't get this from Scripture.

Sorry if I'm just being dumb.

Ruth

Ruth I dont think you are dumb, far from it you know your scriptures and God. Some questions we will not know the answer to this side of heaven.

Some people are greatly used in their "weaknessess" for the word says

2Co 12:9 And he hath said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

However I do agree that you should continue to pray for healing, Also thank God that he is with you in this situation.

Sometimes I have been told to give a situation to God and leave it with him. I think each individual situation warrants prayer for guidance as to what to do and when God tells you then do it .

I don't know if this helps or not.

May God bless you through all of this.

[methinkshe]

Dear Mike,

Your "don't know" response witnesses to my spirit in a way that being told that I/we are "blocking" God's healing in some as yet unknown way does not. That's more or less what I have concluded in the absence of any other teaching - I don't know why God heals some and not others - BUT I trust Him and believe that His sovereign will is ALWAYS good. Whether it means maturing spiritually through the trials and testing of one's faith in adversity, or just accepting that God knows the end from the beginning and has a purpose even in our afflictions. Either way, God is sovereign and I have no right or claim, even through Christ's atonement, to lead and presume on God to follow.

Thanks,

Ruth

[methinkshe]

I cannot find a single instance in Scripture where our Lord told any believer: "Sorry; it's just NOT My will to heal you." Among Jesus' hundreds of healings, there is not an instance where He declined to heal.

According to Isaiah 53 and I Peter 2:24, healing is part of the Atonement. It is as much God's will to heal as it is to save! If you are Calvinist in theology, then you might propose that since you believe God deliberately created some to be damned, then He also created some to be ill, injured, etc. However the Scripture says 'whosoever will' as regards salvation, and since healing is part of the same Covenant, the basis for healing must also be 'whosoever will.'

Still, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it seems despite our believing and prayer, healing doesn't come (or at least is so long in coming we grow weary in the waiting). Sometimes it seems we just get the short end of the stick, and we don't know why.

DEFINITELY pray for healing. Believe God for it. Hold to your confession as long as you can. The decision to seek medical answers can ONLY be made by the one seeking divine healing. God has broad shoulders, and will NOT be angered by your decision.

But is the healing of the body always to be received in this life, or is it sometimes only completed in our resurrection bodies? What about Timothy's frequent illnesses? Paul didn't instruct Timothy to pray for a miracle, nor did he suggest that Timothy must in some way be blocking God's healing through something he was or was not doing in his life. All he advised was that Timothy take a little wine for his stomach and his "oft infirmities." And what about my brain-damaged daughter? What am I to conclude about her? She has been a great blessing because of and in spite of her disability, and I praise God that He is working all things for the good even through such a terrible injury as that. But I am not claiming her healing although I often pray for God's healing for her and have seen many improvements: at one time is was thought she would never speak but now she is a real chatterbox, albeit that her speech is indistinct and not easily understood by those who don't know her. And what about Job? He lost health and wealth and family. Yes, God restored his losses to him, but his original family was horribly slaughtered. And they weren't raised from the dead, either. I cannot glean from Scripture that we have a right to expect perfect health in this life. What about all those missionaries to Africa of the 19C who died of disease or were eaten by wild animals or, worse still, by cannibals? What was wrong in their lives that they didn't enjoy perfect health? And I know of a missionary to Malawi who was doing a wonderful work but has recently had to return home because of bowel cancer and has undergone chemotherapy etc. I have just come back from church and again our pastor was preaching that Scripture says all believers if they are in fellowship with the Lord and are giving Him His rightful place in their lives should enjoy perfect health. But I just can't get this from Scripture.

Sorry if I'm just being dumb.

Ruth

Ruth I dont think you are dumb, far from it you know your scriptures and God. Some questions we will not know the answer to this side of heaven.

Some people are greatly used in their "weaknessess" for the word says

2Co 12:9 And he hath said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

However I do agree that you should continue to pray for healing, Also thank God that he is with you in this situation.

Sometimes I have been told to give a situation to God and leave it with him. I think each individual situation warrants prayer for guidance as to what to do and when God tells you then do it .

I don't know if this helps or not.

May God bless you through all of this.

Thanks, Carol,

I wonder whether those who preach perfect health in Christ realise the condemnation that they can so easily put others under when they find themselves having to live with imperfect health and with disability. Perhaps they do not understand the full implication of such teaching - i.e. that if you do not receive healing/are not in perfect health, it is against God's will and therefore it has to be something you are doing/not doing that prevents God from healing.

Ruth

[irishcowboy]

Ruth,

you have a point, I do not know all of Gods ways.....

I am puzzeled at why a healing will come sometimes, and other times not....

my wife is an example, fallen arch problems, unable to hardly walk and then God sends her RUNNING AROUND.... literally running...... another time, an injury leaves her with frozen shoulder and none of the doctors, with all the physical theropy can fix it, she suddenly raises her hands in worship and she has full movement again...... another time, a large truck is about to hit her and she is leaveled by an unknown being protecting her from the truck running over her, and now she is down in the back and can not work...

we keep praying...... keep seeking........ are we doing what we are suppose to be doing?? are we walking in the Spirit? or are we still walking too much in the flesh?

is God moving us to a new level? one where we need to be broken even more?

a lot of question that may not ever be answered on this earth....

Ruth, if I knew the answer to why some are healed here and some are not, i would not be here......

My sister can not even sweep her kitchen floor, she still waits..... and as was said before in this thread, she is growing weary of waiting.....

I do not know why she has to wait like she is..... if some one knows, i would like to know, so she could receive the healing..... is she living in sin? no, is she unrepentant? only she and God know that.... is she doing something wrong? i do not know... if you do, please tell me.....

blessings...

mike