Domestic Abuse

[MeCajunboy]

from damo1

i wish i can set up a link to show you what is being talked about in some of the mens groups that are run by the goverment in tackling this problem hear with in the aborigonal communities yet due to privacy law this can not be done yet some men and young males have shared in several different churches wear invited by the pastors or counselors that are christians and being payed by the goverment to help

we have been talking on these points alone that oops martin has raised as the way women are seen today by us men falls on the way the sex industry displays them in the videos and the magazines as well

i my self had a poor role model as a father and i am not blaming him for the way i turned out as it all came to me and when i dealt with this i had to take a good look at how i acted and how i saw women in general and let me tell you if i had been bought up in a stable home wear both mother and father wear loving and in a stable job and wear christians i would not have turned out the way i did

and some of these guys and younger males have said the same thing its how they wear bought up and what they are doing know to brake this cultral wall that has surrounded the aborigonal community mind you its only been done with in the aborigonal communities as its broad on a bigger scale yet the goverment is looking at using some of this to also address this in the main society and among australians them selves

yet we are also looking at how the sex industry and the publishers that sell these magazines can be held accountable as a lot also has to do with these industrys to how women are seen and it is wrong how they do this to wear women are used for other mens selfish plessures it almost states its ok to act this way to a women as she sort of likes it which is wrong and degrading

i had to repent as i worked in this industry and saw a lot off it first hand with in the strip clubs i worked in yet i was not a christian

i know several times groups have tried to push for these brothels and strip joints in sydney to be shut i have even signed my name and wrote a letter my self asking that more needs to be done to wear places like this are clossed for good then the other thing to is alcohol and drugs as this also has a big part to play and when it comes into a relationship it can destroy those very close to you yet people don't seem to look at what this does not just to the female but also to the kids

and yes single parent house holds wear bought up wear most boys are being raised with out a father figure as most boys did not have a father figure around

if some had stable men around them to wear they wear able to see how to treat a women with respect most would not have acted out so violently braking down the walls can be almost hard as its sort of a cultral thing as i said and this alone needs to be addressed to wear crimes as this against women can be dealt with and not wear its ignored

the guys that go threw these programs are able to adress this with in ther own communitys

to wear they are efffective role models with in the aborigonal communitys they live in

we have a good mentoring program happening hear as my pastor always says men with in the body need to be more active with in there own communities as my pastor is one of these men who use to work in mental health and is a guy that is not afraid to tackle these issues being an aborigonal elder with in our community and also being a pastor he is a wise man and is able to lead guys like my self and the men and young males that have been coming to these groups and we talk openly with in a safe enviroment

i am only speaking for my self and what we have been addressing hear with in our community

i hope the members on worthy can understand what i have put down as i am learning how to express my self and i am teaching my self how to use this computer that has been passed on to me and i hope to be as good as some of you members to wear i can state things clear for others to read

if i can say one thing i am sorry for what you women have to put up with and this is from the heart and i am doing my best with some of my other brothers hear as no women or child should be subjected to this so i hope i have not up set no one hear on worthy

from damo1

Thank you for your witness, my brother. God bless you. May He hold you in His loving arms forever, where there is peace.

Please don't worry about your grammar damo, as many of us have been through approx. 14 years and more of English and grammar and I can testify that as you get older, it becomes more difficult to maintain good grammar. YOU'RE DOING GREAT! Also, my friend in Christ, keep up the pressure and good work in you country and you can be assured that you are a testamony to your own child, as you will do everything in your power that he doesn't have to suffer the torment you did...God go with you my friend in Christ.

Sincerely

Cajun

[GloryToGod!]

After praying and fasting I married my Christian spouse in 1980. Things were terrific for the first year. Then things went downhill and many years later I didn't hold much hope for our marriage. Our kids began to show signs of being severly mentally ill. One was put in long term hospitalization. Another one chose to go live at a group home. That left us with one son at home. The abuse continued so I moved into a separate part of our home. To make a long story short my husband agreed to sell our home, split the equity and find separate places to live.

Now six years later we are living together as husband and wife. I never filed for divorce either. We went to Christian counseling for about 6 mos before getting back together. God worked mighty works in our lives and I am happy to say that the abuse has stopped. We both give God the glory and honor for bringing us back together.

I did believe that it was wrong to continue to live through the abuse, which is why I moved out. But God can do great and wonderful things when both parties are open to allowing Him to do the work.

God Bless,

Kathy

[Marnie]

After praying and fasting I married my Christian spouse in 1980. Things were terrific for the first year. Then things went downhill and many years later I didn't hold much hope for our marriage. Our kids began to show signs of being severly mentally ill. One was put in long term hospitalization. Another one chose to go live at a group home. That left us with one son at home. The abuse continued so I moved into a separate part of our home. To make a long story short my husband agreed to sell our home, split the equity and find separate places to live.

Now six years later we are living together as husband and wife. I never filed for divorce either. We went to Christian counseling for about 6 mos before getting back together. God worked mighty works in our lives and I am happy to say that the abuse has stopped. We both give God the glory and honor for bringing us back together.

I did believe that it was wrong to continue to live through the abuse, which is why I moved out. But God can do great and wonderful things when both parties are open to allowing Him to do the work.

God Bless,

Kathy

Wonderful story!

The boldface type I couldn't agree with more.

[MeCajunboy]

I was wondering...just what ARE a persons Christian options when it comes to being married to a person that physically abuses them? Is divorce out of the question from a Biblical point of view?

Cajunboy notes:: That's exactly where I was eluding to when I proposed the topic, "Divorces of Christians," in an effort to find the limitations that one should abandon a marriage when there is great physical, and mental abuse. I don't think God would smile on a marriage that was continued merely because of a misrepresentation of "common sense." In fact, I don't doubt is on bit that God would be offended if the spouse being abused didn't do something to abandon the marriage or make other efforts to change the situation.

By the way, I'm disappointed to say that many Christians here voted to "stay" the marriage no matter how much abuse was done to the victim/spouse. I'm quite surprised that God knowing that HE gifted man with great amounts of common sense wouldn't give us a way out especially if the children in the family were also being abused......But apparently some didn't agree!

[MeCajunboy]

I was wondering...just what ARE a persons Christian options when it comes to being married to a person that physically abuses them? Is divorce out of the question from a Biblical point of view?

I think that a Christian person should pick and know their spouses to be very well before marrying them today in other words choose your spouses well and very carefully. When a Christian person is being abused within a marriage it is no different than a non-believer who is being abused within their marriage as the thing to do that is biblical is to seperate for a time and if they can work out the problems after going through counseling and then restoration can be made then the marriage can be saved. But if there is no chase of the marriage being restored and you have looked to the safety of the children in the marriage then permanent seperation would be in order for the sake of you and the kids safety. I think that the decision for a divorce would lie within the abusers lap if they want to be loosed from the marriage not the one who has seperated for the sake of their life and the safety of their kids as their is defiantly no getting back together so it can happen all over again and put the kids in harms way ever again. I think this is biblical advice as well based on scripture in Corinthians. But if coming back together again in no longer an option then let the abusing spouse give the other a bill of divorcement and not the believer.

OC

Im in total agreement OC, but in many cases we see people change in the course of a relationship and if nothing else that good ole "mid-life crisis" thing most of us seem to go through will change the best of conditions. But seriously, I was just wondering what eveyone elses' opinions were in situations where one spouse may perhaps get and remain very violent, or say the female remains abusive (Mentally) and refuses to seek help...What would you do?

[ColleenLovesMischief]

It's not the "divorce" issue that is throwing us, but rather the "re-marriage" after divorce. THAT is what is not allowable, according to the Scriptures. See the topic in "Soapbox' section of WB's.

We seem to ignore THAT instruction.

In His Love,

Suzanne

You are very right my friend. If divorced the only biblically okay way to get remarried is if adultry was committed against you. The adulter is not allowed to remarry. Any other reason for divorce remarriage is not allowed. The only 2 ways for remarriage is if adultry was committed against you, and if your spouse dies.

[Sherman]

It's not the "divorce" issue that is throwing us, but rather the "re-marriage" after divorce. THAT is what is not allowable, according to the Scriptures. See the topic in "Soapbox' section of WB's.

We seem to ignore THAT instruction.

In His Love,

Suzanne

You are very right my friend. If divorced the only biblically okay way to get remarried is if adultry was committed against you. The adulter is not allowed to remarry. Any other reason for divorce remarriage is not allowed. The only 2 ways for remarriage is if adultry was committed against you, and if your spouse dies.

I believe that's a miunderstanding and mistranslation of scripture. Jesus actually addressed a few related but seperate issues concerning MDR.

1) He spoke against divorce for immoral selfish reasons particularized by the example of divorcing one's spouce "in order to marry another." This is brought out in the Mk.10 passage. "A man who divorces his wife so he can marry someone else commits adultery against her. And a woman who divorces her husband so she can marry someone else commits adultery." (The Message) In Greek, both marries and divorces are in the subjunctive mood. Thus the above is a viable and the most sensible translation imo especially considering Mark's Roman audience who would not have understood the various rabbinic debates mentioned in the Matthew 19 passage; the Any-Matter (No-Fault), the legal difference between relationships signified by the use of the "except for fornication (immoral illegal relationships) clause, or the endorsement of monogamy signifed by Jesus quoting Gen.2 from the Septuagint (Greek translation) in stead of directly from the original text Hebrew scriptures.

2) Jesus also explained the reason why Moses was inspired to legislate the bill of divorce and spoke against the common cultural problem of Jewish men abandoning/expelling their wives without giving them a bill of divorce; thus relegating such women to an adulterated social status. They were still legally married though abandoned/expelled and could not legally marry another man. If such a woman did marry, the marriage was not a legal marriage and her and the man that married her were technically legally living in adultery (bigany). Thus the purpose of the bill of divorce was to stop this cultural practice by legally freeing an expelled/abandoned wife to legally marry another man.

Marriage after divorce is not a problem scripturally, regardless of the reason (moral or immoral) for the previous divorce.

Actually, when Paul quotes Jesus in 1 Cor. 7, he mentions both problems in the Jewish culture, but translates the principles to apply to the radically different Greco-Roman culture of Corinth.

Blessings,

Sherman

[ColleenLovesMischief]

It's not the "divorce" issue that is throwing us, but rather the "re-marriage" after divorce. THAT is what is not allowable, according to the Scriptures. See the topic in "Soapbox' section of WB's.

We seem to ignore THAT instruction.

In His Love,

Suzanne

You are very right my friend. If divorced the only biblically okay way to get remarried is if adultry was committed against you. The adulter is not allowed to remarry. Any other reason for divorce remarriage is not allowed. The only 2 ways for remarriage is if adultry was committed against you, and if your spouse dies.

I believe that's a miunderstanding and mistranslation of scripture. Jesus actually addressed a few related but seperate issues concerning MDR.

1) He spoke against divorce for immoral selfish reasons particularized by the example of divorcing one's spouce "in order to marry another." This is brought out in the Mk.10 passage. "A man who divorces his wife so he can marry someone else commits adultery against her. And a woman who divorces her husband so she can marry someone else commits adultery." (The Message) In Greek, both marries and divorces are in the subjunctive mood. Thus the above is a viable and the most sensible translation imo especially considering Mark's Roman audience who would not have understood the various rabbinic debates mentioned in the Matthew 19 passage; the Any-Matter (No-Fault), the legal difference between relationships signified by the use of the "except for fornication (immoral illegal relationships) clause, or the endorsement of monogamy signifed by Jesus quoting Gen.2 from the Septuagint (Greek translation) in stead of directly from the original text Hebrew scriptures.

2) Jesus also explained the reason why Moses was inspired to legislate the bill of divorce and spoke against the common cultural problem of Jewish men abandoning/expelling their wives without giving them a bill of divorce; thus relegating such women to an adulterated social status. They were still legally married though abandoned/expelled and could not legally marry another man. If such a woman did marry, the marriage was not a legal marriage and her and the man that married her were technically legally living in adultery (bigany). Thus the purpose of the bill of divorce was to stop this cultural practice by legally freeing an expelled/abandoned wife to legally marry another man.

Marriage after divorce is not a problem scripturally, regardless of the reason (moral or immoral) for the previous divorce.

Actually, when Paul quotes Jesus in 1 Cor. 7, he mentions both problems in the Jewish culture, but translates the principles to apply to the radically different Greco-Roman culture of Corinth.

Blessings,

Sherman

There are also times quoted that if a man put away (divorces) his wife he forces he into adultry and whover marries her after. 1 Corinthians I think 7 outlines the laws for remarriage well.

[Sherman]

There are also times quoted that if a man put away (divorces) his wife he forces he into adultry and whover marries her after. 1 Corinthians I think 7 outlines the laws for remarriage well.

Exactly, the key is the different words used in verse 10-11.

"Now to the married I command, yet not I but the iLord: 'A wife is not to depart (chorizo) from her husband; but even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce (aphiemi) his wife.'"

If a woman was seperated from her husband (but not divorced) whether by her own action or the action of her husband, she could not legally marry another man and thus should remain "unmarried". The man was put under no such constraint for two reasons. 1) Polygamy was legal, socially and religiously acceptable, and practiced. 2) In Israel husbands had the power of divorce, not the wives, because of the rabbinic/judicial interpretation and application of Deut.24.1 that notes the husband writing the bill of divorce. Did Moses intend to only give men the power of divorce? I don't think so, but that is how they interpreted it.

Also, note that in the Greek, the woman in vs 10 is not the active agent, but is passive. In other words, she was being separated from her husband apart from her will. It was the men that the Lord was addressing because they had the civil authority, power, and responsibility. The Lord was addressing a serious social problem of that day, the problem of men expelling their wives, not giving them a bill of divorce, and thus relegating them to an socially adulterated life. There are actually two biblical examples of wives that were abandoned and subsequently given to other men to marry even though they were still legally married to their first husbands. In one case, the wife was reclaimed many years later by her first and legal husband. The other case caused serious problems for many people, the death of many in fact.

In vs. 11, note that the man who "divorces" (apheimi) his wife was not told to not remarry, why? 1) Because he was legally divorced. And 2) because polygamy was still practiced.

Understanding the cultural context is vitally important to understanding, interpreting, and applying scripture. For examle, did you know that the Romans actually had 5 types of marriage? In fact, the most common in Corinth was the weakest and least stable. It was called "tenting together." It's likely that over 75% of the Corinthian church were just "tenting together", not even "legally" married by ceremony or documentation, but only by their personal commitments to eachother. Even so, they were socially considered married.

[Rebecca2]

I previously posted most of this in another topic, so I hope those who read that topic don

Edited October 6, 2007 by Rebecca2