Doctrine Doesn't Matter Examined

[IslandRose]

Hey Yod,

You been spending time in the sun? You're looking a little red there!

No wait....you're a Royal Member now!

Congratulations!

IR :il:

[Guest shadow2b]

-QUOTE (GymRose @ Feb 21 2004, 02:01 AM)

Neb you are so quick to judge and condemn 

Yikes - whan I first saw that, I thought you were talking about me!

-haaaaaawhhhhheeeewwww!!-Thanky{NEB}mah Sister I reckon I needz mo--hotta

-stimm-U-late--mah brane-sellz--BOO!!crazy werld huhh??

[GymRose]

Neb you are so quick to judge and condemn

Yikes - whan I first saw that, I thought you were talking about me!

I'm sorry Nebula Nebuccanezza is so long to write.

I know we're on the same wave length here!

[GymRose]

Funny how this dude picks the name of the King of Babylon who destroyed Judah and the Temple......

And he seems to be on a mission to put holes in some beliefs....

:x: :x:

Hubby and I kinda thought the same thing.

[1ptr29citizen]

That is my understanding of it anyway and please be aware that I personally do not hold that belief!!!

justjake, could you clarify that? I don't really understand what you meant by it.

*PS I also want to say that I'm not a part of the Boston Movement, Dallas whatever it's called. I know I have started the post about baptism, but I do NOT place any more importance in it than believing, repenting, and confessing. BTW, that Boston thing is down right scary, where all are those movements located?

[justjake]

That is my understanding of it anyway and please be aware that I personally do not hold that belief!!!

justjake, could you clarify that? I don't really understand what you meant by it.

Sure I will. (sorry about my misspelling here----I am a high school dropout)

I personally accept the teaching that one must submit to the commands of Christ in order to receive salvation, and Matthew 28 and Mark 16 both say that one must be baptized in order to be saved and be a disciple of Christ. But if a baptist is baptized by a baptist preacher, none of whom believes that such is required for salvation, does that mean that God didn't recogonize their baptism?

Of course He does. And that is all that I am saying. Once we submit to all of what the Bible teaches about salvation, we are saved. Being baptized by a baptist church and then going to a church where they say that baptism is part of the Gospel and joining there does not mean that they need to be re-baptized.

[Hvnly1Rose]

In answer to:

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I truely believe that if you pray and ask the Lord to lead you to the Church (building) that he wants you to attend, because this particular one is where He knows you will get the growth that you need in order to do His will, He will show you. It could very well be that He wants you to change things at the church He sends you to.

Why would God give you the bible if all you have to do is say a prayer and then go on a feeling of what church you should go to. God gave us the correct church in 33AD on the day of Pentecost. All we need to do is do this in bible ways and use bible names.

Tell me sir Nebuchadnezza10, do you not hear a word from the Lord as to what you should do when you pray?

When you pray and ask the Lord for an answer does He not answer you?

Is that why you believe that we are going on a feeling?

I may not hear an audible word like was heard by Abraham but I know when I have heard from Him, He makes it quite clear. He also speaks to me through His word....so no, I am not going on a feeling.

As for the church at Pentecost...would you please give me the address and directions so that I may attend this church. I would certainly love to be around those wonderful Apostles that faithfully spread the Gospel.

As easy as it is to say lets "do this in bible ways and use bible names", it is not easy to be done. And if you read Revelation you will also find that the churches mentioned there are prophecied to do exactly what they are doing now...it just shows once again how God's word is truth. Not excusing what the churches are doing, just pointing out that it has to be this way in order for prophesy to be fulfilled just as Jesus' coming & dying was fortold so is the falling away of the churches.

I can only be faithful to the Lord and do the best I can to follow His word. I am responsible for my own actions and not the actions of others. Yes we are to rebuke others and pray but there is only so much we can do. If they decide to continue on the path they have chosen we have no way to force them to be obediant to the Lord. They are responsible for their own salvation. God placed a heirarchy in the church that we are to go by so when we have done as the Lord has said and they continue to pursue the wrong path the only thing to do is either leave and have Him show you where He wants you or start a mutany (of sorts). Unfortunately many people aren't willing to step on toes as Jesus was by turning over the tables of the money changers. And if you do something like that you had better have the Lords blessing on it before you do.

(justjake Posted on Feb 21 2004, 03:43 PM)

Of course He does. And that is all that I am saying. Once we submit to all of what the Bible teaches about salvation, we are saved. Being baptized by a baptist church and then going to a church where they say that baptism is part of the Gospel and joining there does not mean that they need to be re-baptized.

I totally agree. Aren't we telling the Lord that we didn't believe that He washed us clean if we go and get rebaptized? Baptisim is an outward confession of an inner transformation.

Blessings~Rose

[His son]

Quote:

Not excusing what the churches are doing, just pointing out that it has to be this way in order for prophesy to be fulfilled just as Jesus' coming & dying was fortold so is the falling away of the churches.

It is this way because God set down the blessings, and the cursings which are the results of the foreknowledge of God as to their freewill choices. God doesn't force anything on anyone.

[nebula]

The idea of a 'denomination' seems to be that of a named organization that makes up a part of a church where people believe the same thing as each other but something different from other 'denominations'. But Jesus established only one church, so where do all these groups come from? Denominations were never part of God's plan for the church. Read from the letter called "1 Corinthians" chapter 1, verses 10-13.

I wanted to come back to comment on this.

If you follow Church history, you can see how denominations came about. Luther discovered that the Church leaders had gotten wa-a-a-a-a-y off track from the Bible. His attempts to reform the Chruch turned into a split off the Roman Catholic Church - as it is now called. Someone else (Calvin?) saw that luther didn't go far enough in returning back to the way laid out in the Bible. Someone else saw that Calvin didn't go far enough. And on and on.

My point being it does make a difference what you believe. We are not all heading for the same place unless we are following the same road, see John 14:16. Refer to Revelation 11:1. We are to be measured as the temple (our doctrine), the altar (our worship) and as worshippers (our moral Christian conduct). Every book of the New Testament has at least one warning against false religions and the doctrines of men. 

I've seen preaching like this before. Someone challenged the person with such as -

So, do you baptise by dunking or sprinkling?

Should communion be taken every Sunday, once a month, or once a year?

And a whole list of other questions that denominations butt heads over.

I'm going to jump back to my skeptical side for now. I mean, it's so easy to say, "I follow the Bible and the Bible alone!" But, we all claim that. The issue of interpreting the application of it has gotten muddy to us over the centuries. To say "my way is the right way" is so completely far fetched it.

I say again - Scripturally, salvation and going to Heaven is about JESUS and who we are in Him and who He is to us - born again, "washed in the blood," confessing Him as Savior and Lord, repenting of our sins, and all that!

[RGR]

The idea of a 'denomination' seems to be that of a named organization that makes up a part of a church where people believe the same thing as each other but something different from other 'denominations'. But Jesus established only one church, so where do all these groups come from? Denominations were never part of God's plan for the church. Read from the letter called "1 Corinthians" chapter 1, verses 10-13.

I wanted to come back to comment on this.

If you follow Church history, you can see how denominations came about. Luther discovered that the Church leaders had gotten wa-a-a-a-a-y off track from the Bible. His attempts to reform the Chruch turned into a split off the Roman Catholic Church - as it is now called. Someone else (Calvin?) saw that luther didn't go far enough in returning back to the way laid out in the Bible. Someone else saw that Calvin didn't go far enough. And on and on.

My point being it does make a difference what you believe. We are not all heading for the same place unless we are following the same road, see John 14:16. Refer to Revelation 11:1. We are to be measured as the temple (our doctrine), the altar (our worship) and as worshippers (our moral Christian conduct). Every book of the New Testament has at least one warning against false religions and the doctrines of men.