Puzzled About Bishop's Wives

[tsth]

'tsth' post

The question isn't about her being accepted, it becomes about a bishop and adultery. If we want to adhere to the Scriptures, then we need to understand what qualifies a man as an adulterer, (keep in mind I am posting from Scripture), you do with it what you want and don't try to pursuade me, as if (I) wrote the passages, I didn't. I DO understand this will be hard to receive:

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

We have to get to the Scriptural understanding of "divorce and adultery" and what the BIBLE REALLY SAYS, rather than what we've been told by men.

Hello tsth,

I must say that you have brought up some very interesting scriptures and thoughts into the discussion that I believe are valid.

So a man can have only one wife and still be unqualified as a bishop. The woman in which the man married could have committed adultery on her previous husband causes this man who is desiring the office of a bishop to be in adultery if he marries her according to the scriptures you gave above Matthew 5:32

I have been looking at this from both sides of the fence and I really do think what you have to say is recieved by me as I want others opinions about this. I have always heard the issue of the bishop being debated on the man's side of things and being the role model and example but I was curious about the wife as a role model and leader and if it was good for her to have been married and divorced before. So you make a good point and I thank you for your response hope you'll have more to say.

blessings

OC

Dear OC,

I'm afraid that we have misunderstood the Scriptures with regard to the woman being divorced, for quite a long time. And as hard as it is to post, the reality of it is, that the woman whose husband has divorced her, CAUSES her to be an adulteress, if she remarries, EVEN if she is not at fault. If you read the passages posted, and not what we have been told by other men. It is a hard teaching, but nevertheless, it is clearly written, that a woman is to remain married under the "covenant" of marriage, until her husband dies, and if the man ABANDONS the wife, he will be dealt with by God.

Romans 7:2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Saints,

The original post was asked in the spirit of trying to understand what husband of one wife meant. Please do not turn this into yet another thread dealing with the women's issue

I agree let us stick to this passage and the question of OC.

The passage and several others almost exactly like it found in the New Testament detailing the requirements for a Bishop, I think are really looking at both polygamy and the ability to maintain a marriage (in some sense serial marraiges are a form of polygamy if you think about it as you marry multiple women). As the other requirements deal with both ability and character it would seem rationale that this is also looking at that point.

Considering that OpenlyCurious started the thread, shouldn't OC have the say so on how the thread is directed? It is OC's question.

In His Love,

Suzanne

S

[Openly Curious]

'tsth' post

The question isn't about her being accepted, it becomes about a bishop and adultery. If we want to adhere to the Scriptures, then we need to understand what qualifies a man as an adulterer, (keep in mind I am posting from Scripture), you do with it what you want and don't try to pursuade me, as if (I) wrote the passages, I didn't. I DO understand this will be hard to receive:

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

We have to get to the Scriptural understanding of "divorce and adultery" and what the BIBLE REALLY SAYS, rather than what we've been told by men.

Hello tsth,

I must say that you have brought up some very interesting scriptures and thoughts into the discussion that I believe are valid.

So a man can have only one wife and still be unqualified as a bishop. The woman in which the man married could have committed adultery on her previous husband causes this man who is desiring the office of a bishop to be in adultery if he marries her according to the scriptures you gave above Matthew 5:32

I have been looking at this from both sides of the fence and I really do think what you have to say is recieved by me as I want others opinions about this. I have always heard the issue of the bishop being debated on the man's side of things and being the role model and example but I was curious about the wife as a role model and leader and if it was good for her to have been married and divorced before. So you make a good point and I thank you for your response hope you'll have more to say.

blessings

OC

Dear OC,

I'm afraid that we have misunderstood the Scriptures with regard to the woman being divorced, for quite a long time. And as hard as it is to post, the reality of it is, that the woman whose husband has divorced her, CAUSES her to be an adulteress, if she remarries, EVEN if she is not at fault. If you read the passages posted, and not what we have been told by other men. It is a hard teaching, but nevertheless, it is clearly written, that a woman is to remain married under the "covenant" of marriage, until her husband dies, and if the man ABANDONS the wife, he will be dealt with by God.

Romans 7:2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

In His Love,

Suzanne

tsth,

I think so that the teachings have not all been applied all the way around maybe perhaps that is why we are seeing so many ministers and their wives falling and loosing their ministries. I am not sure if all divorces would entail all woman who are divorced to be an adulterer or not if they remarry but there is alot of opinions on that one but that goes back to what you were saying about it being hard to accept the word huh.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Saints,

The original post was asked in the spirit of trying to understand what husband of one wife meant. Please do not turn this into yet another thread dealing with the women's issue

This thread is about bishop's and their wives (meaning a man and his woman) This thread is not about women preachers, deacons, elders, apostles and the what not.

I am as EricH has said seeking to understand the bishop and his one wife looking at it from both sides being his wife if she is accepted being double married and of course the bishop's side of it.

I welcome all opinions and discussion centered around these thoughts.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Saints,

The original post was asked in the spirit of trying to understand what husband of one wife meant. Please do not turn this into yet another thread dealing with the women's issue

This thread is about bishop's and their wives (meaning a man and his woman) This thread is not about women preachers, deacons, elders, apostles and the what not.

I am as EricH has said seeking to understand the bishop and his one wife looking at it from both sides being his wife if she is accepted being double married and of course the bishop's side of it.

I welcome all opinions and discussion centered around these thoughts.

OC

Something I noticed OC, when I went back and read the qualifications again, was that under the qualifications for bishop, it never mentions his wife. It lists several qualifications he must meet, but not his wife. The first mention of the wife's qualifications comes up with regard to the deacon. Let's look at the text again from 1 Timothy 3:1-7

1 THIS is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Beginning in verse 8, we see the qualifications of a deacon, not a bishop. One thing I would like to point out. While one of the qualifications is most certainly "the husband of one wife," there are also many other qualifications for this office. I have noticed that in many cases, churches are willing to overlook all of the qualifications except for the one, and they are just as much in dissobedience as the churches compromising with the issue of having only one wife. If the man is overindulgent with alcohol for instance, or if he doesn't rule his own house well, or is greedy of filthy lucre (probably one of the biggest things leading to the downfall of ministers), they are not qualified for the position. I think OC has a good point in what she is saying in that many ministers and their wives have fallen into sin or failed in their ministries, and perhaps the blame can be placed on the fact they were never qualified for the position they were in to begin with?

Hi Butero,

I think you bring out a good point about the wives not even being given qualifications until you get down to the qualifications of the deacons. I would have to think of this in light if the qualifications are given of a deacons wife then the qualifications would be just as important if not more so being the shepherd of the flock (and of course I know that Christ is the shepherd of the flock but the Lord uses people in leadership roles).

Every position in the church is important but the minister of the church is example to all before all so I would think from that standpoint the wives of them would have to be looked at as well when accepting a minister for their church as they are one in marriage.

OC

[Openly Curious]

I understand your point OC, but all we have to go by is what the Bible states are qualifications for a particular office. One could possibly try to make the argument that when it gives the qualifications for a deacon's wife, it was intended to apply to both offices since the word "likewise" is used in verse 8 as it begins qualifications for the deacons, but to me that would be a bit of a stretch. I think those qualifications regarding the deacon's wife only apply to the deacon.

I have been looking at what you have said about verse 8 and the word "Likewise"

1 Timothy 3:8--"Likewise must the deacons be grave not doubletongued not given to much wine not greedy of filthy lucre."

I would actually tend to believe that "likewise" would mean the same as the bishop's qualifications and their wives. As I was pondering this I had noticed another verse that lead me to believe this even further which was verse 10

1 Timothy 3:10--"And let these also first be proved then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless."

It actually says to "let these" meaning the deacons also be like the bishops are to be in their qualification as it says in the verse above to first let them "be proved first" then let them serve in the office of a deacon. And it says in the qualifications of a bishop that they must not be a "novice"

1 Timothy 3:6--"Not a novice lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

So my take is that neither a bishop or a deacon are to serve in these positions if they have just newly come into the faith cause they can fall into trouble being lifted up in pride by serving in these positions being new to the faith.

I would take it that their wives would also have to be looked at in these offices as well for the same reasons of pride.

OC

[Openly Curious]

I have noticed also that there are alot of ministers serving in the role of pastors and their wives are not even saved. I knew of such a minister in my area and his wife gave him alot of grief because she did not want him to be in the ministry and would not support him or be apart of God's work. She drank very heavily and would mess up their house while he was away she had even spray painted the inside of their house up once.

Of course this is a sad scenario I just mentioned but men do that on the roles of being ministers in these type situations. I personally would be opposed this person from the office of bishop or deacon if their wives were unbelievers even if it was thier only wife. As I think it would be a bad example all the way around and lead only to further trouble. Just as much as those who would be a novice being newly come into the faith would be disqualified. There are so much of this being allowed into today's churches it makes one really wonder about things.

Does anyone have any thoughts towards this I've said pro or con?

OC

[methinkshe]

I have noticed also that there are alot of ministers serving in the role of pastors and their wives are not even saved. I knew of such a minister in my area and his wife gave him alot of grief because she did not want him to be in the ministry and would not support him or be apart of God's work. She drank very heavily and would mess up their house while he was away she had even spray painted the inside of their house up once.

Of course this is a sad scenario I just mentioned but men do that on the roles of being ministers in these type situations. I personally would be opposed this person from the office of bishop or deacon if their wives were unbelievers even if it was thier only wife. As I think it would be a bad example all the way around and lead only to further trouble. Just as much as those who would be a novice being newly come into the faith would be disqualified. There are so much of this being allowed into today's churches it makes one really wonder about things.

Does anyone have any thoughts towards this I've said pro or con?

OC

I have noticed that new converts are taking leadership roles - whether it be in worship, or teaching, or other ministries - that I find alarming. The potential for error is huge, especially when the new convert has no Christian background. They come straight from the world and into the church and within months begin to lead, and all too often they bring the world with them because they simply haven't had the time to "renew their minds" or "conform to the likeness of Christ." And because doctrinal teaching is so absent from today's churches, they do not even receive proper instruction in The Word so that they can mature.

I agree with you.

Ruth

[tsth]

I have noticed also that there are alot of ministers serving in the role of pastors and their wives are not even saved. I knew of such a minister in my area and his wife gave him alot of grief because she did not want him to be in the ministry and would not support him or be apart of God's work. She drank very heavily and would mess up their house while he was away she had even spray painted the inside of their house up once.

Of course this is a sad scenario I just mentioned but men do that on the roles of being ministers in these type situations. I personally would be opposed this person from the office of bishop or deacon if their wives were unbelievers even if it was thier only wife. As I think it would be a bad example all the way around and lead only to further trouble. Just as much as those who would be a novice being newly come into the faith would be disqualified. There are so much of this being allowed into today's churches it makes one really wonder about things.

Does anyone have any thoughts towards this I've said pro or con?

OC

I have noticed that new converts are taking leadership roles - whether it be in worship, or teaching, or other ministries - that I find alarming. The potential for error is huge, especially when the new convert has no Christian background. They come straight from the world and into the church and within months begin to lead, and all too often they bring the world with them because they simply haven't had the time to "renew their minds" or "conform to the likeness of Christ." And because doctrinal teaching is so absent from today's churches, they do not even receive proper instruction in The Word so that they can mature.

I agree with you.

Ruth

1 Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Smalcald]

Well you know, once again scripture addresses both of those concerns.

Bishops, deacons and elders are not to be novices and they are to manage thier own homes well. It is interesting what a wonderful guide scripture is and the problems we encounter when we leave scripture.

oops Suzanne just said the same thing.