Some questions about the Passion

[serotta]

i don't recall scripture indicating that Christ wore a loin cloth when he was resurrected. that being said, i have to admit, i thought the last scene was poorly done. it just looked cheezy. i would have liked it better if a semi-transparent Christ with nail holes in his hand appeared to the women when they discovered the empty tomb.

Yeah, I would agree that would have been cool too. But just to see my Saviors face put back together was cathartic enough for me. The picture of Christ on the cross was so vivd and so fresh, to see Him "put back together" was just wonderful enough. Remember that the Resurrection is not really part of the Passion, which is just about His suffering. I wouldn't doubt that that scene was an afterthought for Mel Gibson. But it was a welcome one.

[whatsitmean]

Here is an interesting little bit about this movie. Everyone noticed that

[Guest LadyC]

my apologies. for thinking you hadn't seen the movie. no apologies for thinking you're off your rocker when you say the movie made a total mockery of Christianity.

it's only your opinion whatsitmean... your opinion doesn't make it fact.

[jmwhalen]

Serotta writes"

"Mr. Whalen...Believing is a verb, doesn't that make it a "work"? Receiving is certainly an action verb, wouldn't that also make this a "work"?

Yes God's grace is freely given to all, but we do have to be willing to accept it. A hardened heart needs to be softened.

You, as do most humans, confuse being "in love" with showing love. Love is an action not an emotion. Love is taking action to further someone elses spiritual well being while expecting nothing in return. Did Christ harden his heart against the Pharisees when the forced his crucifixion? No he did not. I think we all need to examine our motives and our hearts to see who we must soften our hearts toward.

___________________________________________________________________

The word believe(or some form of it) is used 98 times in John. Paul over and over and over uses the same word. Scripture says:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5

____________________________________________________________________I am showing love by telling the truth about a life and death matter-the issue of salvation, and what the divine antedote for "the wages of sin....death"(Romans 6:23). As previously posted, I love people, but I love truth more. And I will provide them the truth whether they ask for it or not. I am not to be a "man pleaser"(Proverbs 29:25;Acts 4:19,5:29;Gal. 1:10;Col. 3:23;2 Cor. 4:21 Thel. 2:4;;John 5:44,12:43)-popular, if you will. I am "...to please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier"( 2 Tim. 2:4).

My brother is a doctor, so perhaps a medical analogy will clarify my argument. If one of our loved ones were physically ill, we would not want to be deceived. We would not want to make life and death decisions based on superstition or mysticism. We would want precise answers to specific questions. We would not want general notions, opinions(one of the reasons the Lord Jesus Christ sharply rebuked the Pharisees-relying on their traditions/opinions instead of the word of God), or empty words. We would actively engage all our faculties to judge the truth. We should desire to know the right standard by which to judge these crucial matters because physical life is at stake. How much more should we value the truth and the right standards when questions concerning eternal life is at stake? Someone may claim to be physically fit and well, while they may have cancer inside beginning to eat away at their physical life. When you visit a doctor, you want the truth, the right prescription, even if does not "make you feel good".

Someone once said:"The only time truth hurts is when you don't tell it."

Preaching the gospel of the grace of God is like heartsurgery(I talk to my brother the doctor a lot!)-it requires maximum precision because it is a life and death matter. Much of the presently used language to preach the gospel has become confusing at best, and heretical at worse(2 Cor. 2:17).

We do serve a God of love-God is love. There is no limit to his love-He loves infinitely. We, being "humans", as you correctly state, cannot comprehend how magnificant and glorious His love is.

However, the love of God has been exagerrated and presented in a "lopsided" manner. That is, there has been an overstatement of the love of God at the expense of His other divine attributes. Did you know that love is not the most often mentioned attribute of God in the Holy Bible?

Remember the current "hot phrase": "God loves the sinner, but He hates sin".

Catchy, but not true.

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity"(Psalms 5:5).

"Humans" like to separate the sin from the sinner and allow God to judge only sin, but God judges the sinner:

"God judgeth the righteousness, and God is angry with the wicked every day." Psalms 7:11

God's most often mentioned attribute is His Holiness!(Read Isaiah prayerfully and notice how often this attribute is emphasized). Yes, we have a Gid who hates sin. But He will hate the sinner who has held on to his sin by not trusting/believing on the finished work of His only Begotten Son-the only remedy.

Love is not the supreme attribute of God. Why? Because it is not the basis of salvation. Where are you told in the Holy Bible that loves saves you? We are told"

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God..." Eph. 2:8

God cannot, and will not, love anyone into heaven. Because of His Holiness, and His intoleration for sin, He had to do something about the sin issue first that is consistent with this attribute. And that He did, sending the Lord Jesus Christ to die in your place("...Christ died for our sins...." 1 Cor. 15:3-"for"="in the place of", "for the benefit of", "in behalf of").

It seems the following verse is on bumperstickers, in stadiums, etc.:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". John 3:16

Examine it carefully. Does it say:"For God so loved the world that He decided to save it?" No. Does it suggest that He broke out in tears and sobbed:"Come on in to heaven?" No. He so loved the world that He gave(again, it is God who does the giving-we are to believe it) His Son to die. And this is the "offence" of the cross, the centrality of the cross. And why? Because we are(were now!) such rotten sinners in thought and deed, a Holy God cannot allow us into His Holy presence no matter how much He loves us! And this is why the Lord Jesus Christ uttered an awful and frightful thing while hanging on a cross reserved for criminals(us!):

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" Psalms 22:1

God the Father forsook the most beautiful, lovely person to ever walk on this earth.

And why? Notice the Lord Jesus Christ's response:

"But thou are holy...." Psalms 22:3

When the Lord Jesus Christ, who knew no sin, was made sin for us(2 Cor. 5:21), my and your sin was put on Him. And God treated Him as He treats every sinner that will ultimately hold sin-He forsook His Son and allowed Him to die on a cros! His Holiness demands "condemning sin in the flesh"(Romans 8:3), and yet His love for us inspired Him to give His only Begotten Son to die in our place! This is love!

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[whatsitmean]

Whatsit:

As to the naked man walking out of the tomb with a smirk like arnold swartzenegger saying I'll be back.

Christ will be back.  He promised that.  I thought it was artistically done and nothing but the side of the fanny and thigh was shown besides the pierced hand.  You have a problem with that?  Want to tell Christ you have a problem with that?

You will have your chance when Christ returns.

Artistically done?

The last glimpse of the one eyed jesus in this movie is his naked butt. If that is not an insult and an offense to every Christian on this planet I don't know what else it could be. OR even how else more insult could be added.

Would any of you end a movie about our LORD with a picture of his naked butt?

[Guest LadyC]

excuse me, but perhaps you should pick up a book about anatomy. that wasn't his butt they showed. it was his side... his hip and thigh, with the focus on the hand.

i didn't think the scene was particularly artistic. but for crying out loud, they never showed the actor's butt.

[Catsmeow]

Even if they did, Artsy...I don't have any hangups on such matters. It appears some people have a lot of "baggage" or something.

All I can say is "get a life..."

[whatsitmean]

I don't mind if mock me or think I am off my rocker. My regret is that I can not make a better case and everyone could see what this film really is about.

baggage? My baggage is a PASSION for the word of God and I can't stand it being added to and taken away from as this movie does.

SLEEP ON, if you must.

Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

[nebula]

I was flipping through some channels last night, and saw a young man in a robe sitting in the sand in the middle of a drawn circle. A snake with a female voice was talking to him. Out of curiosity, I kept it on to see what it was about.

It turns out the young man was supposed to be Jesus, and the cobra was claiming to be the manifestation of his soul and was trying to seduce him. "You can't save the world. Save yourself. Embrase love [the sensual kind]." Oh, this was his "test" I guess. He won by resisting the beguiles of the serpent, but not by speaking the Scriptures. OK? Then he was approached by a lion who commended his ability to resist the snake, claimed to be his heart, and also claimed that what he truly desired was power. The response of "Jesus" was, "I never desired an earthly kingdom."

At that point, I was like, "NO!" and flipped that one off. I had seen enough to make me feel sick here.

It got me thinking. . .

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This morning, I was watching Day of Discovery, and they were speaking about the book Uncle Tom's Cabin (the spotlight was the man - whose name just slipped my head - Elijah Cummings maybe? - who was the key inspiration for the author, Harriette Beacher Stowe, behind the character of Uncle Tom). Now, from my history classes, I know that this book had a big impact on American society and is claimed to have been an instrument in causing the events that led to the eventual freedom for the slaves. But what I found interesting was the controversy going on about this book at the time. It was a best seller, but pro-slavery people were claiming that the book was too harsh and painted an unreal negative picture of reality. Anti-slavery people claimed that the book did not go deep enough into the reality of how bad slavery really is.

This too got me thinking . . .

Sadly, over the years, the book had been turned into plays which ended up demeaning the character of Uncle Tom, making him seem like a cheap-skate and a weekling, even a bumbling idiot or a yes-man or even a cripple. This was so far wrong from the real character who was a strong man of faith, humble, full of love, God-fearing, obedient to his master out of obedience to Christ. But because more people saw the play than read the book, by the time of the 1930's and up, society's opinion of Uncle Tom was so far wrong from the real Uncle Tom that teh book was banned from the classroom in the 1960's out of controversy. which is sad, because reading the book would show the truth.

This also got me thinking . . .

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So, amidst the mullings of my thinking, I have a question I need to ask you, whatsitmean -

Did "The Passion" demean the nature and character of Christ in any way? Was Jesus made into something that He is/was/will be not? Did you see the movie de-glorify Him?

(ie. such as the first movie I mentioned actually did, or such as the plays did to the character of Uncle Tom - etc.)

[Guest LadyC]

wonder what movie that was!!! there's one coming on tonight called judas... i was thinking about watching it, but i'll probably forget.