Morality

[forrestkc]

There is another thread in the forum that mentions that those on the forum seem to have "morals" in common. Seeing that kind of got me thinking, is morality not a very subjective concept? Now, of course, true morality, as God sees it, is not subjective. However, in terms of how we as individuals see it, morality seems to be extremely subjective. The reason why I say this is that those that seem to be "morals" and "values" voters - people, tend to think that others are not "morals" and "values" people, and it never seems to occur to them that others might just have different morals and values, or prioritize them differently. Does that make sense?

Now some might say, well, I get my morality from The Word of God, yet those that might disagree with them or have different priorities in terms of morals and values many times would say the same thing. Moreover, at times one might have the same general concerns as another, but have a different view as to how they should be addressed. It would seem to me that almost everyone in a democracy, regardless of their political affiliation, votes their personal values. So it would seem that the terms "values voters" or moral is almost meaningless from the human perspective, because decent people of good conscience vary widely as to what values and morals they see as important in a society.

Comments?

[KeilanS]

Well I would agree that the term "Values Voter" is meaningless. The correct term would be something like "Christian Values Voters". Everyone running has values, they just might have the wrong ones.

Now as for values being subjective, if you mean that everyone has different values, then yes, they are subjective. However, I would argue that you can still have the right values (mainly those in line with Christian teachings). Now obviously even among Christians their is disagreement about which values are right, and in my opinion, that means that some Christians are right and some are wrong about which values are the Truth. Thankfully Jesus covers the sins we commit while holding these incorrect values. (And I would be quite surprised if there was a single person on this planet that was right in their viewpoint about every single point of morality).

[hopper]

Edited April 17, 2008 by hopper

[forrestkc]

Well I would agree that the term "Values Voter" is meaningless. The correct term would be something like "Christian Values Voters". Everyone running has values, they just might have the wrong ones.

Now as for values being subjective, if you mean that everyone has different values, then yes, they are subjective. However, I would argue that you can still have the right values (mainly those in line with Christian teachings).

Even there, from man's perspective you are falling into the world of subjectivity. For example, look at the different values and morals of say The Peace Churches and Conservative Evangelicals, or that of those that adhere to the Social Gospel, and those on the Religious Right.

Where one Christian might say that the "Gay and Lesbian Agenda" is the biggest moral crisis facing the nation, another might say that rampant Materialism is, and another might say environmental degradation and Global Warming is. Strong scriptural arguments can be made for the basis of all of those views, yet, different Christians still come to different moral conclusions.

[KeilanS]

Even there, from man's perspective you are falling into the world of subjectivity. For example, look at the different values and morals of say The Peace Churches and Conservative Evangelicals, or that of those that adhere to the Social Gospel, and those on the Religious Right.

Where one Christian might say that the "Gay and Lesbian Agenda" is the biggest moral crisis facing the nation, another might say that rampant Materialism is, and another might say environmental degradation and Global Warming is. Strong scriptural arguments can be made for the basis of all of those views, yet, different Christians still come to different moral conclusions.

Well I certainly wasn't talking about which moral issue is more of a crisis. That is 100% subjective. However, what isn't subjective is what is a truly good value and what isn't. To pick a black and white one, lets say one person supports stealing from those well off because they have too much anyways, and another person thinks we should honour their right to their goods. Obviously one view is right and the other wrong. I think all values can be called either right or wrong, the problem is that we don't always know which ones are right (being fallen and all that).

[Openly Curious]

There is another thread in the forum that mentions that those on the forum seem to have "morals" in common. Seeing that kind of got me thinking, is morality not a very subjective concept? Now, of course, true morality, as God sees it, is not subjective. However, in terms of how we as individuals see it, morality seems to be extremely subjective. The reason why I say this is that those that seem to be "morals" and "values" voters - people, tend to think that others are not "morals" and "values" people, and it never seems to occur to them that others might just have different morals and values, or prioritize them differently. Does that make sense?

Now some might say, well, I get my morality from The Word of God, yet those that might disagree with them or have different priorities in terms of morals and values many times would say the same thing. Moreover, at times one might have the same general concerns as another, but have a different view as to how they should be addressed. It would seem to me that almost everyone in a democracy, regardless of their political affiliation, votes their personal values. So it would seem that the terms "values voters" or moral is almost meaningless from the human perspective, because decent people of good conscience vary widely as to what values and morals they see as important in a society.

Comments?

forrestkc,

When it comes down to moral issues there is always going to be certain ones that stand out in importance above the rest. For example, in Hitler's Germany there were alot of issues that faced the German people that could have been called moral issues. But there was no more important issue than stopping the destruction of innocent Jews.

The great moral issue we face in America today is abortion. When compared to that issue all others take a back seat. So whenever someone tries to make a case that they are moral because they support things like insurance for poor people and welfare programs in general all in the name of morality yet they are pro-abortion they are not really moral in my view.

What they are really saying is, if you are fortunate enough to survive nine months in the womb without being murdered then we will take care of you at the expense of tax payers but if not that is just your tough luck. All values are not

equal.

OC

[Guest]

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[EricH]

There is another thread in the forum that mentions that those on the forum seem to have "morals" in common. Seeing that kind of got me thinking, is morality not a very subjective concept? Now, of course, true morality, as God sees it, is not subjective. However, in terms of how we as individuals see it, morality seems to be extremely subjective. The reason why I say this is that those that seem to be "morals" and "values" voters - people, tend to think that others are not "morals" and "values" people, and it never seems to occur to them that others might just have different morals and values, or prioritize them differently. Does that make sense?

Now some might say, well, I get my morality from The Word of God, yet those that might disagree with them or have different priorities in terms of morals and values many times would say the same thing. Moreover, at times one might have the same general concerns as another, but have a different view as to how they should be addressed. It would seem to me that almost everyone in a democracy, regardless of their political affiliation, votes their personal values. So it would seem that the terms "values voters" or moral is almost meaningless from the human perspective, because decent people of good conscience vary widely as to what values and morals they see as important in a society.

Comments?

It depends on what you mean by subjective. if by that you mean there are several valid definitions for what constitiutes morality, then I think you are incorrect. God is the ultimate source of morality, and that morality is spelled out in His one and only special revelation to humanity.

But, if by subjective you mean that people in our country feel free to define morality on their own terms, then I agree.

[rehydrated_for_Christ]

Ah let me have a shot at this since I am the one who posted said thread. When I said morals, I meant Christian morals. I doubt that there are very many on this forum who are pro-choice. Now, there may be some who would vote for a candidate that is pro-choice if it came down to the lesser of two evils, etc. basically, what i mean is that as a whole, this forum represents a group of people who are very similar in views on basic issues-abortion, homosexuality, etc. Our tolerance of these issues and the ideas we have on what should be done about them is waht separates us as well as our prioritization of the issues. I do know that my assertion has basically already been proven correct by looking at responding opinions, so obviously morality isn't nill when spoke of in the context I applied it.

[KeilanS]

I know it may be hard to believe that there are any professing Christians that support abortion, but here at Worthy, we have a few. They are supporting people like Hiliary and Obama. The way I see it, if there are 2 candidates running, and one is pro-life and the other is pro-choice, I will vote for the pro-life candidate in nearly every situation. I will vote for the pro-choice candidate in no situation if there is a pro-life alternative representing one of the 2 major parties.

Are you certain we have members that actually support abortion? That's a harsh accusation to make. I understand some support Hillary and Obama, but as far as I know they do not support abortion, but simply believe it is something they must deal with because they like the rest of Hillary and Obama's platforms. I think that my views are expressed by Hillary better than the other candidates I've read up on (not all of them), but like you, I would never vote for a pro-choice candidate. (not that I can vote at all, but hypothetically)