Magog and Armageddon

[nebula]

Ezek. 38

For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: 'Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.'

First note: It says the earthquake will be in the land of Israel.

revised first note: the passage says the quake will be in the land of Isreal (possibly the epicenter of the quake), but that it will EFFECT THE ENTIRE EARTH...you conveniently left that part out

I addressed that in the second note.

and this is the very sign (a quake that shakes the entire earth)

I do not see the phrase "entire earth" in the passage. Do you?

btw the above note is straight from the MacArthur Study Bible...so I'm in excellent company here

Is MacArthur God's mouthpiece? I respect most of what the man has to say, but he is not the ultimate authority on the word of God.

It is very dangerous to shape your theology around the words of one man like this.

Second note: The word for "earth" in Hebrew is 'erets, which is commonly used to refer to "the land," rather than "the planet." (Example: 'Erets Yisrael - "the land of Israel.") So, if you want to argue that "earth" = globe, you are going to have to provide the evidence that the word means such in this context.

or more accurately, you'll have to prove this passage DOESN'T refer to the whole earth,

Fine - Since you can't look it up yourself, even though I gave you the easy reference to click on....

Please tell me how 'erets means "planet" and not "land" or "ground":

Ge 1:24 - And God said, Let the 'erets bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 2:11 - The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole 'erets of Havilah, where there is gold;

Ge 2:13 - And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole 'erets of Ethiopia.

Ge 4:16 - And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the 'erets of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Ge 10:10 - And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the 'erets of Shinar.

Ge 10:11 - Out of that 'erets went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

Ge 11:28 - And Haran died before his father Terah in the 'erets of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

Ge 12:7 - And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this 'erets: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Ge 15:13 - And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a 'erets that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

Ge 18:2 - And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the 'erets,

Ge 24:4 - But thou shalt go unto my 'erets, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

Ge 26:2 - And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the 'erets which I shall tell thee of:

Ge 32:9 - And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy 'erets, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee:

Ge 33:3 - And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the 'erets seven times, until he came near to his brother.

Ge 33:18 - And Jacob came to Shalem, a city of Shechem, which is in the 'erets of Canaan, when he came from Padanaram; and pitched his tent before the city.

Have you seen enough, or shall I continue?

Now, let us look at what the various uses of 'erets have been translated to in English:

Strong's Number: 0776

Word Origin - from an unused root probably meaning to be firm

Transliterated Word - 'erets

Phonetic Spelling - eh'-rets

Noun Feminine

Definition

1. land, earth

1. earth

1. whole earth (as opposed to a part)

2. earth (as opposed to heaven)

3. earth (inhabitants)

2. land

1. country, territory

2. district, region

3. tribal territory

4. piece of ground

5. land of Canaan, Israel

6. inhabitants of land

7. Sheol, land without return, (under) world

8. city (-state)

3. ground, surface of the earth

1. ground

2. soil

4. (in phrases)

1. people of the land

2. space or distance of country (in measurements of distance)

3. level or plain country

4. land of the living

5. end(s) of the earth

5. (almost wholly late in usage)

1. lands, countries 1e

6. often in contrast to Canaan

King James Word Usage - Total: 2504

land 1543, earth 712, country 140, ground 98, world 4, way 3, common 1, field 1, nations 1, wilderness + (04057) 1

source

Now, because 'erets can mean "whole earth" do you automatically assume that it has to mean "whole earth" in this instance?

More often than not, 'erets is used to express "land" or "ground" or "the dwelling of man" than it does "the whole earth."

But what does "whole earth" mean in the Bible? Does it mean "planet"?

This is where I have to ask you for any evidence that anyone back then had even the slightest concept of the planet. History shows that the concept of planets did not exist until about the time of the Renaissance.

I would also like to see evidence that the people back then thought of the oceans as part of the earth.

Also, note the following:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

earth

[nebula]

Disclaimer: It took me about an hour to type up all of that, and I have a busy day ahead of me. So, if I don't say anything else today, it is because I haven't had the time to.

[whirlwind]

I don't understand what you mean by "won't be a time of upheaval," as the Lord will be sending troubles to the Earth through the opening of the seals, the sounding of the trumpets, and the pouring of the bowls.

I meant in the tribulation of Satan, not the one of the true Christ.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

17.And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That last verse refutes the rapture doctrine as he is coming to make war with us, Christians....those that keep the commandments of God and Jesus. He already has the others, those that don't believe in God. He wants us but he can't take us except by deceit and that deceit is pretending to be Christ. In order to do that he can't be going around chopping heads off, etc., so those terrible things attributed to him at that time have to be spiritual in nature, not physical.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8.And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

13.And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

14.And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;.....

To make the "whole world" worship him he has to do it with either fear or deception. The above verses tell us it is with deception. They worship him because of the miracles, when he is pretending to be Christ. He does this with the power given to him by God.

So....my understanding would be that Satan's time here will be great for everyone, except those he deceives but they won't know it has happened until the true Christ arrives......then, gnashing and wailing begins for anyone that "worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand".

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

............Whirlwind

[sweetycakes]

This is a very interesting and a very important discussion, friends.

Let's always remember to keep it civilized, ok?

We are all believers here (on this topic)...as far as I know. We are here to bounce around ideas and insights off one-another, and hopefully learn from one another.

Whirlwind.......regarding your views about the lost tribes of Israel being the major western nations......

As a young Christian I spent a couple of years as a member of the British Israel World Federation, and must admit I was quite taken in by a lot of their teachings at the time.

However, given time, I discovered that, although they are very sincere in their beliefs, they seemed to be too stuck on the assertion that the lost tribes were the nations of the West (Dan = Denmark, and so on...). It was very interesting, though, I must admit.

Since then, I have come to believe that only Israel is Israel.

Glad you finally made it to the boards, btw

[whirlwind]

It sounds as if you know about the twelve tribes being split.

Yeah - basic OT history, right?

Yes, it is basic but so many Christians don't know about it.

They eventually traveled over the Caucasus Mountains (caucasian) and settled throughout Europe then eventually went to England. From England, well......you know the rest of the story.

Woah - you're going to have to give some references for this one. Last I heard, the fate of the "Lost Tribes" was still a mystery, with some pockets possibly found.

It isn't clearly written, especially in our history books but there are some books that go into it and really make you consider the very strong possibility.

To make a long story even longer.....it is thought that Ephraim is Great Britain of today and Manassah is America.

Thought by whom? Based on what?

There are two books I would recommend....Jacob's Pillar, A Biblical Historical Study - E.Raymond Capt and

Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright - J.H. Allen

Some of the scriptures that tell of the possibility are:

Gen.12:22 Israel to be a great and mighty nation - (God's first promise to Abraham)

Gen. 13:16 Israel to have unaccountable seed: (This was God's second promise to Abraham.)

The Jews have never fulfilled this prophecy

Gen.22:16-18 And said, "By Myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice." (The nation of Israel doesn't fit that description but America does.)

Genesis 28:14 Israel was to spread throughout the earth and be a blessing to everyone - The Jews never fulfilled that but America does

Gen.17:4-6, 35:11, 48:19...Israel will be a company of nations. Great Britain is a company of nations and America is the greatest of those nations.

I believe we live in the land of Israel, where many of the tribes have settled. We are the One Nation Under God, gathered here and blessed by God Himself. America is that great nation of "unwalled" villages.

Our brother Judah will experience the battle of Armageddon in Jerusalem while we watch God fight the battle of Hamangog against the Russians/Esau in our northern regions.....Alaska, which we bought from Esau.

I'm sorry this was so long but I just brushed on the topic. Anyway.....it's something to consider.

Not a problem - but this whole "America is Israel" thing . . . I would need a whole lot of evidence to support this belief before I would consider it. Sorry.

That's okay. Just consider England and America when you come across some of the prophecies. The house of Israel has to be somewhere and we're certainly the best candidate. When you think about our history it is phenomenal to think what we have become in 200 years, how we help the rest of the world, the blessings we have and being One Nation Under God. If it's true that could be one of the reasons we have such strong ties to the nation of Israel, not just political but emotional ties as well.

.........Whirlwind

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind.......regarding your views about the lost tribes of Israel being the major western nations......

As a young Christian I spent a couple of years as a member of the British Israel World Federation, and must admit I was quite taken in by a lot of their teachings at the time.

However, given time, I discovered that, although they are very sincere in their beliefs, they seemed to be too stuck on the assertion that the lost tribes were the nations of the West (Dan = Denmark, and so on...). It was very interesting, though, I must admit.

Since then, I have come to believe that only Israel is Israel.

Glad you finally made it to the boards, btw

Hi Sweety Cakes,

It is an interesting study and there are many signs pointing to areas the lost tribes could be. I think the main thing to realize however is that there is a separation in the house of Judah and the house of Israel (wherever they may be at this time) but they will be joined again into "one stick" and that may not be much longer. (Ez.37:16-17)

Interesting times ahead.

Thank you for the welcome. I would add a smiley face but haven't yet figured out how to make them jump to my page. I whistle, I beckon, I plead but the rascals won't show up.....A big smile to you anyway.

..........Whirlwind

[sweetycakes]

Whirlwind.......regarding your views about the lost tribes of Israel being the major western nations......

As a young Christian I spent a couple of years as a member of the British Israel World Federation, and must admit I was quite taken in by a lot of their teachings at the time.

However, given time, I discovered that, although they are very sincere in their beliefs, they seemed to be too stuck on the assertion that the lost tribes were the nations of the West (Dan = Denmark, and so on...). It was very interesting, though, I must admit.

Since then, I have come to believe that only Israel is Israel.

Glad you finally made it to the boards, btw :o

Hi Sweety Cakes,

It is an interesting study and there are many signs pointing to areas the lost tribes could be. I think the main thing to realize however is that there is a separation in the house of Judah and the house of Israel (wherever they may be at this time) but they will be joined again into "one stick" and that may not be much longer. (Ez.37:16-17)

Interesting times ahead.

Thank you for the welcome. I would add a smiley face but haven't yet figured out how to make them jump to my page. I whistle, I beckon, I plead but the rascals won't show up.....A big smile to you anyway.

..........Whirlwind

It's quite easy to insert smiley faces and the like, Whirlwind.

When replying to a post, you will see at the top of the reply panel (alongside the options for Bold, Underline, etc.....a 'smiley face' option. Click on that to reveal a 'drop down box' to select the smiley of your choice. There are many more if you select 'Show all'.

Feel free to post an introduction in the Worthy Welcome section, if the inclination takes you.

And be not afraid to interact with us. We are a friendly bunch............we don't bite.........with the exception of Ghostie, of course (only joking, Ghostie...... )

And, once again, welcome. I've been looking forward all week to you being able to overcome the problems you had with posting here the other week.

We are a great community of believers here on Worthy.

[whirlwind]

It's quite easy to insert smiley faces and the like, Whirlwind.

When replying to a post, you will see at the top of the reply panel (alongside the options for Bold, Underline, etc.....a 'smiley face' option. Click on that to reveal a 'drop down box' to select the smiley of your choice. There are many more if you select 'Show all'.

Feel free to post an introduction in the Worthy Welcome section, if the inclination takes you.

And be not afraid to interact with us. We are a friendly bunch............we don't bite.........with the exception of Ghostie, of course (only joking, Ghostie...... )

And, once again, welcome. I've been looking forward all week to you being able to overcome the problems you had with posting here the other week.

We are a great community of believers here on Worthy.

I can see that.

It is wonderful to be part of a forum of believers, even if there are different views. Those views can certainly bring out the personality of the posters and that does make it fun.

...........Whirlwind

[sweetycakes]

It's quite easy to insert smiley faces and the like, Whirlwind.

When replying to a post, you will see at the top of the reply panel (alongside the options for Bold, Underline, etc.....a 'smiley face' option. Click on that to reveal a 'drop down box' to select the smiley of your choice. There are many more if you select 'Show all'.

Feel free to post an introduction in the Worthy Welcome section, if the inclination takes you.

And be not afraid to interact with us. We are a friendly bunch............we don't bite.........with the exception of Ghostie, of course (only joking, Ghostie...... )

And, once again, welcome. I've been looking forward all week to you being able to overcome the problems you had with posting here the other week.

We are a great community of believers here on Worthy.

I can see that.

It is wonderful to be part of a forum of believers, even if there are different views. Those views can certainly bring out the personality of the posters and that does make it fun.

...........Whirlwind

If you like fun, you should check out the 'Fellowship Hall' forum on the boards. Many a whacky topic is posted there.

(for those of you who don't know.....Whirlwind is a person I have been communicating with on another forum. She is a lady of 61 years of age)

[whirlwind]

(for those of you who don't know.....Whirlwind is a person I have been communicating with on another forum. She is a lady of 61 years of age)

Thank you for the "lady" but REALLY.....did you have to say the rest?

I went back to the other forum and it seems so dark (in format and content). I almost feel called to go there....so many young people and so misguided. I'll continue to but it is a pleasure to log in here.

...........Whirlwind