Magog and Armageddon

[whirlwind]

but most people neglect the fact there will be another "Beast" in play here: the False Prophet! and he likely will be a Jew

My understanding is that the "first beast" is a one world political system that brings in a false peace, is wounded (people no longer believe in it) but is healed by Satan. He uses that system.

The second beast is, as you stated, a religious beast....the false prophet, Satan masquerading as Christ. My question to you is, why do you believe he will be a Jew? He will certainly be pretending to be one as he comes as Christ but what was your reasoning?

...........Whirlwind

[whirlwind]

Here:

Rev. 20:10 - The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Thank you for your reply. I believe we are thinking in the same vein.

My understanding of Revelation is that the first beast is a political system while the false prophet, is a role Satan plays, pretending to be Christ (or anti-christ). Both those powers, or roles, are thrown in the lake of fire. So...although Satan will be released again, at the end of the millennium, he will never have the same power he has in this age.

Actually, I see we aren't thinking alike after all. I went back to your previoius post:

In Revelation, we see the Dragon (who is Satan), the Beast that rises out of the sea (whom we for whatever reason call "the Anti-Christ"), and the Beast form the earth (the False Prophet).

In this verse, the great deceiver is the Dragon, Satan.

You see the first beast as the anti-christ while I see it as a political system. You see two different entities....the anti-christ and Satan while I see only one....Satan as anti-christ.

Gosh, sifting through Daniel and Revelation is like being interviewed by Chris Matthews.....you can get a head full of oatmeal for brains before the night is over.

I'll keep sifting and hopefully come up with a clearer understanding.

............Whirlwind

[George]

Why wouldn't the beast (antichrist) try to impersonate everything that Jesus already accomplished? Honestly when I read that the beast was struck down -- then resurrected again -- it's the appearance to me as the "false resurrection".

Dupping the world is one thing -- but the antichrist would have to be accepted by the Jews -- and the Jews are expecting a very "specific" individual. So you have to keep this in mind.

But I believe this is straying off the orginal topic. Let's remember that the orginal topic was the differences between the Gog & Magog war of Ezekiel 38 and the war of Revelation.

God bless,

George

[whirlwind]

The second beast is, as you stated, a religious beast....the false prophet, Satan masquerading as Christ. My question to you is, why do you believe he will be a Jew?

because he claims to be the Messiah two horns like a lamb and performs miracles...keep in mind the Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to arrive the first time, and many of them will buy into the deception

anyone claiming to be the Messiah would need to be a Jew, and perform miracles in Israel

I agree. I thought you meant there was another reason he had to be Jewish. Thank you for the clarification.

At times I have wondered, as "the whole world" will be deceived. If he, with his supernatural abilities, will appear as each religions idea of their promised one. However, seeing as he comes in such a visible way while performing miracles.....everyone should be taken in even if he appears as Christ and not the one they have worshippped.

.........Whirlwind

[nebula]

in I John 2, the apostle uses the term in a general sense, but also with reference to the final antichrist, who commits the abomination that causes desolation

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

In which version?

Let's see:

KJV = 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (no"the" antichrist)

NKJV = 18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the F4 Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. ("the" included with footnote: NU-Text omits the . . . don't know what NU refers to, though)

OK, so maybe John did have "the big one" in mind with anti-Christ . . . however, he does seem to distinguish the ultimate opposer to Christ with other opposers to Christ.

[nebula]

My understanding of Revelation is that the first beast is a political system while the false prophet, is a role Satan plays, pretending to be Christ (or anti-christ). Both those powers, or roles, are thrown in the lake of fire. So...although Satan will be released again, at the end of the millennium, he will never have the same power he has in this age.

Well, based on the description of the Beast in Rev. 13, the beast could be an "empire" - like the beasts in Daniel represented empires. This beast has 7 heads with 10 horns. In Daniel's vision, Alexander the Great was represented by a horn. And it is only one head that seems to have been mortally wounded and come back to life.

So, we'll see.

(Unless you believe in the Pre-Trib rapture, in which case you won't care about what is going on in the Earth afterwards, will you? )

But Rev. 20:10 clearly defines the dragon, the beast and the false prophet as 3 separate entities.

Unless you are able to present an exegesis of the passage that show how any of them could be one and the same?

[George]

I really believe if you study Islam and the ways in which the people in the Middle East are "brainwashed" then you'll realize they'll never accept anything less than total Islamization of the world. And if you understood the Orthodox Jews in Israel, they'll never accept anything coming out of Islam. So obviously something has to give. And when looking at the scriptures and realizing that the Islamic states of today -- are ominiously absent from the Gog & Magog war, it seems to indicate that something will occur. Let's remember that the topic is the differences between the Ezekiel 38 war and the Revelation war. Somehow we're going all over the place!

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[nebula]

Well, based on the description of the Beast in Rev. 13, the beast could be an "empire" - like the beasts in Daniel represented empires.

the Beast personifies many great leaders of those past empires, but the Beast is a man, that is clear from Rev 13

the harlot that "sits on many waters" is the one world/universal false religious system which incorporates many pagan religious systems from the past and present, which the Beast and the 10 kings help to set up, and which they do away with at the midpoint of the Tribulation

Maybe - maybe not.

I'm trying to learn to read the prophecies apart from outside interpretation, and I notice things that don't fit in with conventional interpretation. But, I never claimed to be a prophet, nor have I been gifted with prophetic insight. I firmly believe that Daniel was able to accurately interpret Jeremiah's prophecy only because the Holy Spirit made it clear to him. I don't see any of our abilities to interpret end-time prophecies to be spot on without the same.

Therefore, I hold loosely to any interpretation given or might consider more valid than another.

The Lord will make it clear for those who need to know when the time comes.

But like George said, this debate has gone way off course from its original discussion.

[followerofjesus]

Revelation is Johns vision while in the spirit. Alot of the conventional interpretation isn't parallel with the scripture. I hope I spelled that right.

[followerofjesus]

Its good to use conventional thinking and going to church on Sunday for some people. Some people have the desire to seek God in unconventional ways. Does God reach out to teach us more or is it all black and white?

Thanks and peace