Pilgrim7 Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2007 wings, I doesn't matter what my stance is, only what God's stance is. As I see it one can worship anytime they wish, but the Issue is God's Holy Day is not to be ignored. God said it was His Holy Day, not just for rest, but for Holy pursuits. It isn't about rest, but about Holiness, it is a full day to be kept Holy. If one does not do that, then he/she is in transgression of the Commandment which calls it sin. To transgress presumptuosly is dangerous indeed, for that is how blasphemy of the Spirit takes place. Still to choose a day of worship, that has always been the worship day of Pagans is strange at best. When one realizes that it is the institution of the 'falling away' from the truth that Paul says was already in motion in his day, and replaces God's Holy day it becomes serious indeed, more than just a harmless choice of the individual. To Transgress it is to willingly choose our will above that of God. Some seem to think that they can do whatever they wish, but that is not what Scripture says. The 'believer' is to follow God, not his own ways. God does not change. His will does not change, especially when He instuted a Holy day for mankind, at creation, which makes it more important than the other commandments. Some seem to think that all God wants them to do is rest. The word means cease from secular labor. Why? So one can keep the whole day holy. This is what God wants, it is His will. Holiness is not just resting from labor. It is about doing Holy things. The Sabbath Day is a gift from the Creator, a memorial to the Creator God, whom the Scriptures tell us was Jesus. It shows that we worship the God who is creator, and not some other God. It is a full day of interupted communion with our Maker. What a blessing. It is very well and good to say that we worship God all the time, but those who are honest realize that secular work is very demanding and it is impossible to have unbroken communion with God and work also. There are some deeper issues involved here, but I won't go into that now. I hope this helps. If you wish specific answers, ask some more specific questions. I am a Sabbath keeper, not a Sunday keeper. I used to go to church on Sunday, but now I keep the Sabbath day Holy. God bless you brother, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2007 Warrior, I understand your point about love, and agree with it to a point. It is not just about loving our neighbor. It is also about loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. One who loves God will do the things that please Him also. This is the first of the two 'Great Commmandments' which seems to get little attention. The love of God comes before the love of the neighbor. Without it, the love of neighbor is worthless. To take you illustration, if one loves God, He will not transgress the first four commandments either. He will love God so much that he will not have other God's before him which is shown by obedience to Him, and his word out of love, he will not have idols or false Gods, but the Creator God, he will not take the name of the Lord in vain, but will honor and reverence His name and demonstrate His character of Godliness before the entire world. He will witness to the entire world that he worships the God who created, the God of all power, by reverencing the day He set aside for Holiness. This is what it means to Love God with all the heart. This is written in the heart of the believer when he enters into the 'New Covenant' along with the 2nd of the 'great commandments' upon which all the law and prophets hang. Without this Love for God, one will not be able to Love his neighbor as himself, no matter how eloquently he can speak about it. I personally don't understand how one can love God with all His heart and not keep his will, which is made know by His word and His commandments. You see when I went to church on Sunday, I sought to keep the entire day holy for I was misinformed and thought it was the Sabbath. When I learned the truth about God's Holy Day, and how the Pagan festival of worship was substituted for God Holy Sabbath, I changed to a Sabbath keeper. What a blessing, just as God Said it was. Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that does this, and the son of man that lays hold on it; that keeps the sabbath from polluting it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that has joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD has utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths (whose Sabbaths?), and choose the things that please me (you see that is about loving, pleasing God, the first great commandment), and take hold of my covenant............. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keeps the Sabbath from polluting it, and takes hold of my covenant; There is no blessing or pleasing God in transgression. This Adam and Eve had to find out the hard way. Eve was convinced that she would be blessed in transgression of God, but the wages of sin were still death, from the beginning. God Bless, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 To take you illustration, if one loves God, He will not transgress the first four commandments either. He will love God so much that he will not have other God's before him which is shown by obedience to Him, and his word out of love, he will not have idols or false Gods, but the Creator God, he will not take the name of the Lord in vain, but will honor and reverence His name and demonstrate His character of Godliness before the entire world. He will witness to the entire world that he worships the God who created, the God of all power, by reverencing the day He set aside for Holiness. This is what it means to Love God with all the heart. This is written in the heart of the believer when he enters into the 'New Covenant' along with the 2nd of the 'great commandments' upon which all the law and prophets hang.So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in trangression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted November 10, 2007 To take you illustration, if one loves God, He will not transgress the first four commandments either. He will love God so much that he will not have other God's before him which is shown by obedience to Him, and his word out of love, he will not have idols or false Gods, but the Creator God, he will not take the name of the Lord in vain, but will honor and reverence His name and demonstrate His character of Godliness before the entire world. He will witness to the entire world that he worships the God who created, the God of all power, by reverencing the day He set aside for Holiness. This is what it means to Love God with all the heart. This is written in the heart of the believer when he enters into the 'New Covenant' along with the 2nd of the 'great commandments' upon which all the law and prophets hang.So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in trangression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday? Because everyone does it, that makes it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 To take you illustration, if one loves God, He will not transgress the first four commandments either. He will love God so much that he will not have other God's before him which is shown by obedience to Him, and his word out of love, he will not have idols or false Gods, but the Creator God, he will not take the name of the Lord in vain, but will honor and reverence His name and demonstrate His character of Godliness before the entire world. He will witness to the entire world that he worships the God who created, the God of all power, by reverencing the day He set aside for Holiness. This is what it means to Love God with all the heart. This is written in the heart of the believer when he enters into the 'New Covenant' along with the 2nd of the 'great commandments' upon which all the law and prophets hang.So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in trangression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday? Because everyone does it, that makes it right? That is not the issue. The issue is I am raising is the judgmental spirit. "If you don't keep the Sabbath," then you don't love God." The impliatication is that only the true followers of Jesus keep the Sabbath, and as for the rest of us, our profession of faith is invalid because we don't keep the Sabbath day. Are those who don't keep the Sabbath true Christians? Will they go to heaven even if they do not choose to keep the Sabbath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted November 10, 2007 To take you illustration, if one loves God, He will not transgress the first four commandments either. He will love God so much that he will not have other God's before him which is shown by obedience to Him, and his word out of love, he will not have idols or false Gods, but the Creator God, he will not take the name of the Lord in vain, but will honor and reverence His name and demonstrate His character of Godliness before the entire world. He will witness to the entire world that he worships the God who created, the God of all power, by reverencing the day He set aside for Holiness. This is what it means to Love God with all the heart. This is written in the heart of the believer when he enters into the 'New Covenant' along with the 2nd of the 'great commandments' upon which all the law and prophets hang.So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in trangression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday? Because everyone does it, that makes it right? That is not the issue. The issue is I am raising is the judgmental spirit. "If you don't keep the Sabbath," then you don't love God." The impliatication is that only the true followers of Jesus keep the Sabbath, and as for the rest of us, our profession of faith is invalid because we don't keep the Sabbath day. Are those who don't keep the Sabbath true Christians? Will they go to heaven even if they do not choose to keep the Sabbath? I was just answering your question. I'm thankful I'm not the judge. But if one knows the true Sabbath is the 7th day, why on earth would they not want to keep it, and keep another day of their own choosing, just because it's popular and convenient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I'm thankful I'm not the judge. But if one knows the true Sabbath is the 7th day, why on earth would they not want to keep it, and keep another day of their own choosing, just because it's popular and convenient? The issue I am raising is not about when the Sabbath is. Everyone knows the biblical Sabbath is from Fri evening to Sat. evening. The issue is whether or not it is binding on Christians today. If someone does not believe it is binding, are they true follower of Jesus? Are still a true Christian even if they simply go to church on Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I'm thankful I'm not the judge. But if one knows the true Sabbath is the 7th day, why on earth would they not want to keep it, and keep another day of their own choosing, just because it's popular and convenient? The issue I am raising is not about when the Sabbath is. Everyone knows the biblical Sabbath is from Fri evening to Sat. evening. The issue is whether or not it is binding on Christians today. If someone does not believe it is binding, are they true follower of Jesus? Are still a true Christian even if they simply go to church on Sunday? Are you saying there is no Sabbath day anymore? Or are you saying we can pick whatever day we want, rather than observing the day God said to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreciousRubi Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 103 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2007 So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in trangression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday? This scriputre comes to mind... 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. The word Law is translated from the Hebrew Torah...which means "teaching," "instruction," or "law." With this in mind....we can better understand this scripture ..... Sin is the treansgression of Torah...God's teaching. His instruction. His Law. Man made Sunday the new day of worship over and above God's 7th day Sabbath. That would be a transgression of Torah wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think part of the issue is definitional. I don't observe the Sabbath as it is defined in Exodus; I also eat pork and am not worried how I was circumcised. My Sabbath rest is found in the Gospel and there are numerous passages to support this. Going to worship on Sunday has nothing to do with the Sabbath or a new Sabbath or anything like that; Sunday is just a day many Christians often meet to worship. If someone says that they choose to observe a "Sunday" Sabbath I think that is problematic as it is not the Sabbath as Moses defined it and they probably are not observing it biblically anyway. Man made Sunday the new day of worship over and above God's 7th day Sabbath. You see this would be a misunderstanding or simply not reading what Moses has to say about the Sabbath. He says nothing about a day of worship, he says to refrain from ALL work, and that your household must also do this, and that you must not cause others to work. These teachings were further refined in the rest of the Torah to be even more specific. It is not about some day we choose to worship. The first Christians worshipped daily. But Christians have been finding outward rules; rituals and observances to exclude one another since the resurrection so I don't doubt it will end with this issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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