Hate Al Gore all you want. Global warming is real

[kat8585]

Think about it this way, what if the world's scientific community ends up being wrong. If we go green, and 30 years from now we find out we were wrong about Global Warming, what will we have lost? It seems to me that the worst case scenario here is that we take action, build a cleaner, more efficient, and sustainable society, and then find out we were wrong about Global Warming. I guess then we will all have to tell our kids that we are so sorry about giving them cleaner cities, much more efficient homes and transportation, clean renewable energy, far less pollution, less urban sprawl, and tons more green space. Oh the horrors if that were to happen.

There is nothing wrong with going green, as long as it is voluntary, and government doesn't think it has to steal my money to do it. We should strive for a cleaner earth, but not from scare tactics.

[forrestkc]

Please answer this. How much carbon emissions does one volcano produce and how much carbon emissions did the US produce this entire decade?

Sure, annualized Carbon Emissions from resulting from human activity is roughly 150 times that resulting from Volcanic Activity.

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html

[forrestkc]

Can I ask, just what is it you want from us? Shall we all bow down and chant "forrestkc is right...forrestkc is right...?"

Do you need the ego-stroke that bad?

God is in charge. Nothing is going to happen without his say-so. Relax!

How's your electric car and solar powered house doin'?

My guess is you pollute just as much as anyone else...

Actually, I try not to. For starters, my wife and I live less than 4 miles from where we work. Some days I bike to work. I use a programmable thermostat. We compost. We recycle. We garden as organically as possible. We use water saving showerheads. We make sure we purchase energy efficient appliances. We live in an older home, but we have taken steps to weatherproof it as much as possible. Moreover, our home is smaller, thus consumes far less electricity than a typical suburban home. My lawn is planted with the most drought and heat tolerant grasses that our suitable for our climate. We use those spiral florescent bulbs around the house everywhere possible. We try to purchase organic foods and our food from the KC Farmers Market when possible (and in terms of organic when we can afford it). We try to be reasonably responsible consumers by trying to purchase items that were made with decent labor and environmental standards when possible. I mulch as much as possible around our landscape to conserve water. We also use rain garden techniques. I try to invest as much as I can in socially responsible mutual funds.

As a family of four, we currently use about half as much water as the typical household uses, half as much electricity, and a third as much gas for our vehicles due to much shorter commutes (and I drive a 4wd Truck).

As far as God being in charge. Yes, thats true, but he told us to be stewards of the earth and certainly through our free will has allowed us to screw it up as evidenced by the current species extinction rates, deforestation, and the level to which we have polluted the air, land and water.

[kari21]

Can I ask, just what is it you want from us? Shall we all bow down and chant "forrestkc is right...forrestkc is right...?"

Do you need the ego-stroke that bad?

God is in charge. Nothing is going to happen without his say-so. Relax!

How's your electric car and solar powered house doin'?

My guess is you pollute just as much as anyone else...

Actually, I try not to. For starters, my wife and I live less than 4 miles from where we work. Some days I bike to work. I use a programmable thermostat. We compost. We recycle. We garden as organically as possible. We use water saving showerheads. We make sure we purchase energy efficient appliances. We live in an older home, but we have taken steps to weatherproof it as much as possible. Moreover, our home is smaller, thus consumes far less electricity than a typical suburban home. My lawn is planted with the most drought and heat tolerant grasses that our suitable for our climate. We use those spiral florescent bulbs around the house everywhere possible. We try to purchase organic foods and our food from the KC Farmers Market when possible (and in terms of organic when we can afford it). We try to be reasonably responsible consumers by trying to purchase items that were made with decent labor and environmental standards when possible. I mulch as much as possible around our landscape to conserve water. We also use rain garden techniques. I try to invest as much as I can in socially responsible mutual funds.

As a family of four, we currently use about half as much water as the typical household uses, half as much electricity, and a third as much gas for our vehicles due to much shorter commutes (and I drive a 4wd Truck).

As far as God being in charge. Yes, thats true, but he told us to be stewards of the earth and certainly through our free will has allowed us to screw it up as evidenced by the current species extinction rates, deforestation, and the level to which we have polluted the air, land and water.

If you were REALLY green, you'd get off the grid and go completely solar or wind, trade-in that 4wd truck for a hybrid (until those hydogen cars are produced) grow ALL your own food, and drink desalinated ocean water. Most people do the things you do for money reasons, (programmable thermostat, water saving showerheads, purchasing energy efficient appliances, et al) not for the environment...so, I'm not impressed.

[JustinM]

That's great Forrestkc. Most of us here have probably taken similar steps into preserving the environment. Our argument is that we do not want the government to control our environmental decisions. We don't want to be "carbon taxed" especially if there's a strong possibility that those taxes will go to the UN.

If you want a cleaner healthier environment, let's start with heavily deregulating and litigating energy production. American's have been very responsible/economical entrepreneurs and inventors. Why? Because if a business can make more of something more efficiently, that person will invest in those habits or technology.

Ford saw that it was inefficient with how cars were produced, so he created the assembly line. As a result, he was able to create more automobiles, cheaper and faster.

Let free enterprise invest in clean energy production. If they can develop technology that creates energy with less resource consumption, they will do it.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest and most efficient method of creating energy. We have developed methods to practically eliminate all toxic biproducts.

Give tax breaks to companies that are developing more efficient technology, such as hydrogen cars and cleaner sources of energy.

As it is, our refineries have been unable to expand in the last 30 years. We are at peak production, because we lack the infrastructure to produce more. In the last 30 years, our population has more than doubled.

[Kansasdad]

Please answer this. How much carbon emissions does one volcano produce and how much carbon emissions did the US produce this entire decade?

Sure, annualized Carbon Emissions from resulting from human activity is roughly 150 times that resulting from Volcanic Activity.

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html

According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), 150 billion tonnes of carbon go into the atmosphere from natural processes every year. This is almost 30 times the amount of carbon humans emit. What difference will any reductions we try to do make? Further we know that in the earths history we have seen carbon levels much higher then what we have today. Long before we had our industrial revolution. The Earth has seen spikes in the carbon before and it had nothing to do with humans. Now, are humans contributing to some of the carbon? Yes, but nature out does us every time we turn around. Just look at the energy released by one hurricane. Should we be good stewards of our planet, yes. But lets make sure it is really not about power and money.

Ok we put about 5 or 6 billion tonnes and nature puts 150. So we contribute about 3%. Lets say we can cut our emissions down by 30%. Now we will be contributing around 2%. Do you really think cutting 1% of the total carbon emissions will make a great difference?

God Bless,

K.D.

[~Julia~]

I am not sure the facts are wrong...there are legitimate numbers at play. There is legitimate numbers showing the melting of the ice caps and numbers showing contribution percentages of "greenhouse gases". There is NO proof the 2 are as related as certain political proponents would have you believe. There ARE many different opinions on how the 2 are related.

I am stuck on this point...that if "global warming" or "climate change" is such a huge, human caused problem, then why do statistics prove that humans account for "about 0.28%, if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%" of all greenhouse gas emissions.

Certain articles use words like 'many scientists support blah blah blah' when really the truth is that under 50% believe the ice cap melting is caused by humans. Their political agenda clouds the real issue and is done so for a reason. This is the same reason why the Bush Administration choses to use the term "climate change" instead of "global warming". It portrays a more accurate statement, the climate is ALWAYS CHANGING and has done so (if you believe in carbon dating billions of years)

BTW I agree to disagree with you.

Julia

Edited October 18, 2007 by ~Julia~

[forrestkc]

If you were REALLY green, you'd get off the grid and go completely solar or wind, trade-in that 4wd truck for a hybrid (until those hydogen cars are produced) grow ALL your own food, and drink desalinated ocean water. Most people do the things you do for money reasons, (programmable thermostat, water saving showerheads, purchasing energy efficient appliances, et al) not for the environment...so, I'm not impressed.

Honestly, thats ridiculous. No one in the scientific community is saying that we all need to go and live in some hippy commune in order to combat Global Warming. We simply have to be conscionable of our impact upon our environment, and take reasonable steps toward minimizing it as much as we can.

For example, to go off the grid, one would have to spend approximately 45,000 dollars for a solar array and ten grand for a geothermal heat pump, and another 4 grand for a solar water heater, just to provide the energy necessary to power and heat and cool a modest size home.

Desalinating ocean water requires huge amounts of energy and being that I am about 900 miles from the nearest ocean, would be impossible.

As to driving a truck. I don't drive a truck simply on pavement and to haul the kids around in. Most weekends, there is a canoe, fishing rods, or a mountain bike in the back of it. Moreover, the truck I drive is the most efficient one in its class. My truck only gets a few thousand miles a year put on it, and any time we are taking a trip, we use my wife's much more efficient Subaru.

As to the cost savings of going green, yeah, there is. Thats the benefit of it. Some of the righties are so knee jerk to Global Warming that you would think the answer to it was feeding kittens to wolves. In reality, mitigating global warming saves you money. Higher CAFE Standards save you money. Better efficiency standards save you money. Less urban sprawl and thus shorter commutes saves you money. Virtually everything involved with mitigating carbon emissions saves people money and or significantly improves our quality of life. To go green, one does not have to live off the grid, or in some hippy commune. All you have to do is buy the most efficient vehicles that meet your needs, buy closer in to where you work if at all possible. Build or buy a smaller home rather than some big cookie cutter McMansion. Use organic fertilizers. Buy the most efficient appliances you can afford when you replace the ones you have. Compost. Carpool. Vote for that light rail. Buy locally grown food when you can. I mean we are not talking about huge changes here, just lots of little ones. Of course first, you got to admit there is a problem that as a society we have to address.

[forrestkc]

Please answer this. How much carbon emissions does one volcano produce and how much carbon emissions did the US produce this entire decade?

Sure, annualized Carbon Emissions from resulting from human activity is roughly 150 times that resulting from Volcanic Activity.

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html

According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), 150 billion tonnes of carbon go into the atmosphere from natural processes every year. This is almost 30 times the amount of carbon humans emit. What difference will any reductions we try to do make? Further we know that in the earths history we have seen carbon levels much higher then what we have today. Long before we had our industrial revolution. The Earth has seen spikes in the carbon before and it had nothing to do with humans. Now, are humans contributing to some of the carbon? Yes, but nature out does us every time we turn around. Just look at the energy released by one hurricane. Should we be good stewards of our planet, yes. But lets make sure it is really not about power and money.

Ok we put about 5 or 6 billion tonnes and nature puts 150. So we contribute about 3%. Lets say we can cut our emissions down by 30%. Now we will be contributing around 2%. Do you really think cutting 1% of the total carbon emissions will make a great difference?

God Bless,

K.D.

The 150 billion tons of carbon that is naturally emitted is naturally sequestered. Prior to the industrial revolution, natural carbon emissions were in balance with natural carbon sequestration. We have upset that balance and that is why CO2 ppm has increased steadily since the industrial revolution.

As to the earth having higher C02 in the past, historically, before human intervention, changes in CO2 lagged temperature rises

[Guest Biblicist]

"Welcome to Science Weekly. Today, as our very special guest, we are pleased to have Chicken Little, who will explain to us the dynamics and causes of the forth-coming collapsing of the sky."

There are many of us here who simply don't buy into this whole global warming tug-of-war forrest. Deal with it.

oh, man, you made me spray my drink all over the screen!