Hate Al Gore all you want. Global warming is real

[kari21]

Is being a good steward of creation not a biblical issue?

The point is, you seem to not believe any of us are as good a "steward" as yourself.

As to the rest of your arguments, thats like saying if you don't live like Mother Theresa, then your not going all the way as a Christian.

Well, with you being the "High Priest of Environmentalism" I just figured you'd wanna crank it up a notch and be a better example.

forrestkc, when will you ever accept that the scientific community is split on the whole global warming thing? I know in my heart that if this were the 1970's or 80's, you would be harping about the coming Ice Age.

Do you believe that we are all simpleton's who can't really understand this issue? Many of us have looked into it (and many scientists as well) and do not find it all that credible.

So just let it go, willya?

[Guest]

Welcome To Worthy

Ninesided, May You Find Treasure Beyond Your Wildest Dreams

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9

Who exactly stopped these monstrous atrocities against humankind? Certainly not God. It was people like us who fought against all odds. If you think it is all planned by God, read your Bible again with a new eye.

Straight From The Heart!

Dear One, Thank You.

Another Look...

PEOPLE LIKE US VERSUS GOD

Two Hearts

Man's Heart

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Jeremiah 17:9

God's Heart

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Jeremiah 31:3

Monsters And The God Of Reason

Lovers Of Death

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

God Of Reason

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

Two Voices

The god Of Atrocities

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8

The God Of Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

God's Plan

Love

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Eternally

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Romans 21:3-4

See Jesus, Believe And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24:27

Love, Joe

[kari21]

Welcome To Worthy

Ninesided, May You Find Treasure Beyond Your Wildest Dreams

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9

Who exactly stopped these monstrous atrocities against humankind? Certainly not God. It was people like us who fought against all odds. If you think it is all planned by God, read your Bible again with a new eye.

Straight From The Heart!

Dear One, Thank You.

Another Look...

PEOPLE LIKE US VERSUS GOD

Two Hearts

Man's Heart

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Jeremiah 17:9

God's Heart

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Jeremiah 31:3

Monsters And The God Of Reason

Lovers Of Death

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

God Of Reason

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

Two Voices

The god Of Atrocities

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8

The God Of Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

God's Plan

Love

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Eternally

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Romans 21:3-4

See Jesus, Believe And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24:27

Love, Joe

It gladens my heart to see how much you love God's Word. You rock, Joe!

[forrestkc]

The point is, you seem to not believe any of us are as good a "steward" as yourself.

When did I say that? What did I write that made you think that I thought that everyone else on here was a poor steward?

Well, with you being the "High Priest of Environmentalism" I just figured you'd wanna crank it up a notch and be a better example.

forrestkc, when will you ever accept that the scientific community is split on the whole global warming thing? I know in my heart that if this were the 1970's or 80's, you would be harping about the coming Ice Age.

Do you believe that we are all simpleton's who can't really understand this issue? Many of us have looked into it (and many scientists as well) and do not find it all that credible.

So just let it go, willya?

I don't think you have looked in to it. I don't. I think your going by what the deniers out there are saying, and your not looking at it objectively. For example, you say that there is still a lot of debate about this in science. Your flat out wrong on that.

The New Scientist had an article on this very question:

Climate change skeptics sometimes claim that many leading scientists question climate change. Well, it all depends on what you mean by "many" and "leading". For instance, in April 2006, 60 "leading scientists" signed a letter urging Canada's new prime minister to review his country's commitment to the Kyoto protocol.

This appears to be the biggest recent list of skeptics. Yet many, if not most, of the 60 signatories are not actively engaged in studying climate change: some are not scientists at all and at least 15 are retired.

Compare that with the dozens of statements on climate change from various scientific organizations around the world representing tens of thousands of scientists, the consensus position represented by the IPCC reports and the 11,000 signatories to a petition condemning the Bush administration's stance on climate science.

The fact is that there is an overwhelming consensus in the scientific community about global warming and its causes. There are some exceptions, but the number of skeptics is getting smaller rather than growing.

Even the position of perhaps the most respected sceptic, Richard Lindzen of MIT, is not that far off the mainstream: he does not deny it is happening but thinks future warming will not be nearly as great as most predict.

Of course, just because most scientists think something is true does not necessarily mean they are right. But the reason they think the way they do is because of the vast and growing body of evidence. A study in 2004 looked at the abstracts of nearly 1000 scientific papers containing the term "global climate change" published in the previous decade. Not one rejected the consensus position. One critic promptly claimed this study was wrong

[kari21]

When did I say that? What did I write that made you think that I thought that everyone else on here was a poor steward?

It's all about your attitude, forrestkc. You come off as always doing the right environmental things and we are just polluting morons.

don't think you have looked in to it. I don't. I think your going by what the deniers out there are saying, and your not looking at it objectively.

You're soooo right. My widdle girly-bwain just can't wrap itself around any big issues! Please, please tell me what to think! Oh look....a shiny thing!

*Kari wanders off*

Do you see what I am saying? There simply is not a bunch of scientists out there challenging this theory, and the few that were, have mostly came around.

You sound like Richard Dawkins talking about evolution. Sorry, not buying that ALL the scientists have come around.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...3c6&k=44510

[forrestkc]

When did I say that? What did I write that made you think that I thought that everyone else on here was a poor steward?

It's all about your attitude, forrestkc. You come off as always doing the right environmental things and we are just polluting morons.

don't think you have looked in to it. I don't. I think your going by what the deniers out there are saying, and your not looking at it objectively.

You're soooo right. My widdle girly-bwain just can't wrap itself around any big issues! Please, please tell me what to think! Oh look....a shiny thing!

*Kari wanders off*

Do you see what I am saying? There simply is not a bunch of scientists out there challenging this theory, and the few that were, have mostly came around.

You sound like Richard Dawkins talking about evolution. Sorry, not buying that ALL the scientists have come around.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...3c6&k=44510

You don't have to be so mean spirited in your responses. I never said that all scientists have came around. Statistically, its about 1 in 1000 with expertise in climate that are still deniers, and I do not believe that an OP/Ed in the National Post carries nearly the same weight as an article in The New Scientist.

[traveller]

Again - everyone - stay on the issues and not on the person. Please. This is a good topic - keep it that way. Take a break if necessary.

[nebula]

I've asked this before.

But if we don't know why the global temperature has risen and fallen in the past, how can we know for sure that the climate change going on now is not occuring for the same reason(s) it has before?

In science, you need to eliminate all experimental variables but the one you are testing. But until we know what all the other variables are, how can we eliminate them from the equation?

Example: Deforestation has been known to decrease rainfall. Knowing that we are losing more and more forest every year, do we know what effect this decrease in rainfall is having over the globe?

I read an article about recent evidence that the remains of a galaxy (I think it was) is currently passing through ours and coming into contact with our solar system (the dust and radiation and all), and it was proposed that this interraction is having an impact on our global temps. OK, I didn't have time to research this, but I did find at least that there is some type of previously undetected galactic interraction going on. But what if....?

But what is it about "global warming" that evryone is up in arms about? Is it that pressure is lopsided to American businesses as the culprit? Is it that the restrictions put on American businesses will cause a loss of jobs due to businesses forclosing or cutting costs to make up for the cost of "cleaning up"? Is it because of the threat to American sovereignty?

Or is it our own laziness?

OK, I'm all for cleaning up and energy efficiency. If I could have a way to use solar power in my own home, I would. I recycle. I put trash in the trashcan and not the grass nor river (and I hate it when people litter!).

I agree that businesses would do better if they operated as servants rather than as tycoons. But we can't force a change of heart - only the Holy Spirit can.

That is why this fight ought to begin on our knees, not in the courts or legislatures.

[Guest Biblicist]

You have asked this question many times: "What are you going to say when God asks you what you did to preserve the environment?" Or some version of it. Now, one of our eternal rewards, as if spending eternity with Christ and God isn't enough, are crowns. Of all the crowns listed, a good steward to the environment isn't one of them.

Are we, or are we not commanded to be good stewards of creation?

1 Peter 4:9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Doesn't look like he told us to be good stewards of creation...

HOWEVER........

Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Subdue.... to subject, subdue, force, keep under, bring into bondage

Rule Over....[dominate] to rule, have dominion, dominate, tread down, to scrape out

[forrestkc]

1 Peter 4:9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Doesn't look like he told us to be good stewards of creation...

HOWEVER........

Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Subdue.... to subject, subdue, force, keep under, bring into bondage

Rule Over....[dominate] to rule, have dominion, dominate, tread down, to scrape out

Ok, I think I have posted this on here before, but I think I did a pretty good job with it, so here goes again. This is what I believe is the scriptural case for conservation.

God did not create the world and everything in it, and then told us to "take, rape it, its yours". Our relationship to creation is like a tenant. I made the scriptural case for Christian Environmentalism before, but I will do so again here since its topical:

Let's start with Genesis 1:26

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."

Leviticus 25-23-24

"The land shall not be sold in perpetuity; for the land is mine, and you are but aliens who have become my tenants. Therefore, in every part of the country that you occupy, you must permit the land to be redeemed.

So we are created in the spiritual image of God, and we are given dominion over God's creation. Otherwise to be stewards of Creation. Now what is a steward? A steward is someone who looks after something on behalf of someone else. Therefore, we are to look after God's creation on behalf of God.

The Creation is for us to use but but not exploit:

Jeremiah 2:7

"When I brought you into the garden land to eat its goodly fruits, You entered and defiled my land, you made my heritage loathsome."

James 5:5

"You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter."

What happens if we are good stewards of God's creation?

Leviticus 26:4-6

I will give you rain in due season, so that the land will bear its crops, and the trees their fruit; your threshing will last till vintage time, and your vintage till the time for sowing, and you will have food to eat in abundance, so that you may dwell securely in your land. I will establish peace in the land, that you may lie down to rest without anxiety. I will rid the country of ravenous beasts, and keep the sword of war from sweeping across your land.

What happens if we are poor stewards of God's creation?

Revelation 11:18.

"The nations were angry and your wrath has come. The time has come for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great - and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

What is the purpose of God's creation? It is to glorify God.

Psalm 96:11-13

Let the heavens be glad and the earth rejoice; let the sea and what fills it resound; let the plains be joyful and all that is in them. Then let all the trees of the forest rejoice before the LORD who comes, who comes to govern the earth, To govern the world with justice and the peoples with faithfulness.

Isaiah 43:20

Wild beasts honor me, jackals and ostriches, For I put water in the desert and rivers in the wasteland for my chosen people to drink,

What about individual species, plants and animals? Let's look at Genesis again:

Genesis 1:11-12

Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened: the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was.

Genesis 1:20-21

Then God said, "Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures, and on the earth let birds fly beneath the dome of the sky." And so it happened:

God created the great sea monsters and all kinds of swimming creatures with which the water teems, and all kinds of winged birds. God saw how good it was,

Genesis 1:24-25

Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it happened:

God made all kinds of wild animals, all kinds of cattle, and all kinds of creeping things of the earth. God saw how good it was.

So God sees his creation, the plants and animals from the smallest organisms to the largest animals walking the earth, as he created them as good.

So lets break this down:

God created the earth and all life on it to Glorify Him.

God sees his entire creation as he created it as good.

God created man in his spiritual image and gave him dominion over his creation.

God's creation is his, not ours, we are to be stewards of his creation.

We can use his creation, but not exploit it.

We are to live simply (I did not quote the scripture on this one, but there are hundreds of references to this in scripture).

If we are good stewards of his creation, then God's creation will provide for our needs.

If we are poor stewards of his creation, then we will bear God's wrath come judgement.

One final point, The Great Commission tells us that we are to teach others to "obey everything I have commanded you". Thus, since environmental stewardship is a command of God, we are practice it and teach it to others that we bring the Gospel to.

Now, that of course does not mean that we should worship the earth or anything, but it does mean that as Christians we have a biblical responsibility to protect and nurture creation.

So what do you think?