I need some help here.

[KeilanS]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

[anitarose]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

I don't think so. I think we'll be too busy praising and worshipping God to be robots.

Evil was created to give man a choice, IMHO. There has to be free will involved in order for man to choose God or evil. I can't get into more detail than that.

Anita

[kat8585]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

I've wondered about this, too. And never got a satisfactory answer. I don't understand why He created Lucifer, knowing what he would do and cause. Cause so many of His children to be lost. It seems like it was supposed to happen to me, too. The pat answers about "choice" don't cut it.

[rtwo]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

I've wondered about this, too. And never got a satisfactory answer. I don't understand why He created Lucifer, knowing what he would do and cause. Cause so many of His children to be lost. It seems like it was supposed to happen to me, too. The pat answers about "choice" don't cut it.

What is it about the idea of choice that is unsatisfying as an answer? If we are incapable of choosing evil, how can we choose good? If we can't choose good, we can't choose God. If we can't choose hate, we can't choose love -- meaning, again, we can't choose God. And if we -don't- choose God, wouldn't this be an unsatisfying relationship to both parties?

I'm just finishing Ted Dekker's "Black" (have to find Red and White), which goes on about this idea of mutual choice (the Great Romance) to some length. Highly recommend.

[MeCajunboy]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

Why would you think there might be "evil" in Heaven anyway? Wouldn't you want to live in a carefree Heaven without fear of temptaion or evil in it? I wouldn't think God would allow evil in HIS HOME , would you?

[kat8585]

What is it about the idea of choice that is unsatisfying as an answer? If we are incapable of choosing evil, how can we choose good? If we can't choose good, we can't choose God. If we can't choose hate, we can't choose love -- meaning, again, we can't choose God. And if we -don't- choose God, wouldn't this be an unsatisfying relationship to both parties?

I'm just finishing Ted Dekker's "Black" (have to find Red and White), which goes on about this idea of mutual choice (the Great Romance) to some length. Highly recommend.

But why did we have to go thru the mess? If Lucifer hadn't been created, we wouldn't have had to, and billions wouldn't have been lost, and everything would have been wonderful.

There had to be a purpose, a reason for it. Sin had to be for a reason.

[Zadok Rox]

Regarding Heaven, since it's our flesh body that is infected with sin, we won't have any desire for sin or evil in Heaven (our flesh bodies will be in the grave).

I agree with the free-will answer. How would you feel if the person you love only loved you because that person had no choice but to love you? You would want that person to want to love you, not do so automatically like some programmed robot.

Unfortunately, the opposite of God's way is evil. Strange how our flesh constantly wants the evil dispite all its destructiveness.

[rtwo]

What is it about the idea of choice that is unsatisfying as an answer? If we are incapable of choosing evil, how can we choose good? If we can't choose good, we can't choose God. If we can't choose hate, we can't choose love -- meaning, again, we can't choose God. And if we -don't- choose God, wouldn't this be an unsatisfying relationship to both parties?

I'm just finishing Ted Dekker's "Black" (have to find Red and White), which goes on about this idea of mutual choice (the Great Romance) to some length. Highly recommend.

But why did we have to go thru the mess? If Lucifer hadn't been created, we wouldn't have had to, and billions wouldn't have been lost, and everything would have been wonderful.

There had to be a purpose, a reason for it. Sin had to be for a reason.

The ability to -choose- is the reason.

[Fraught]

I'll try to summarize my problem. Basically it came out of a discussion in a friends college philosophy class.

Our first thought was how can evil exist if God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We decided that in order for evil to exist, God must have had some purpose for it. Because evil could not have existed without God wanting it to. We thought that maybe God needed evil in order to create a being with free will and so allowed it to come into existence.

Now if that is true, then how can we enjoy heaven? Won't we be like robots once we are incapable of choosing evil?

here is my world philosophy. if you get something out of it, great; if not, let it go.

just as cold doesn't really exist - cold is only lack of heat; also dark doesn't exist - dark is only lack of light. these are scientific principles and so can be extended to:

evil doesn't exist - evil is lack of good, disease is lack of health, hate is lack of love, strife is lack of harmony, etc. (this could sound odd, but what do we consider normal?: good, health, love and harmony. whereas evil, disease, hate and strife are considered abnormal.

apparently then, as we look within ourselves, we strive for good, health, love and harmony. so this is what we were created for. in heaven, then, we will be fulfilling our destiny, acting in the normal capacity we were designed to be in.

[kat8585]

What is it about the idea of choice that is unsatisfying as an answer? If we are incapable of choosing evil, how can we choose good? If we can't choose good, we can't choose God. If we can't choose hate, we can't choose love -- meaning, again, we can't choose God. And if we -don't- choose God, wouldn't this be an unsatisfying relationship to both parties?

I'm just finishing Ted Dekker's "Black" (have to find Red and White), which goes on about this idea of mutual choice (the Great Romance) to some length. Highly recommend.

But why did we have to go thru the mess? If Lucifer hadn't been created, we wouldn't have had to, and billions wouldn't have been lost, and everything would have been wonderful.

There had to be a purpose, a reason for it. Sin had to be for a reason.

The ability to -choose- is the reason.

We would have still had the ability to choose. We just wouldn't have had Satan to tempt us to do wrong and to cause such chaos. It never would have occurred to us to sin. The angels chose not to rebel for however long they were in heaven til Lucifer bacame Satan.