is predestiny fair?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Methinks I can see a degeneration into the good ol' predestination vs free will debate here. One which I'm not sure is likely to help matters at all. I guess I have only one question - do you believe you deserve to enter heaven?

no way. neither do you. nobody deserves heaven. it is a gift we've both accepted though, and it is this grace in which we stand.

No arguments here. That is why i said entering heaven is not fair. No one deserves heaven, and so the fact taht anyone can get to enter at all is decidedly unfair. Miraculous, wonderful even. But definitely not fair. Edited October 23, 2007 by ParanoidAndroid

[Guest LadyC]

jb, i don't know if you are intentionally twisting what i say or if you're just not grasping it, but i think i'll stop discussing this with you because you're not willing to listen carefully. it's like you're hearing bits and pieces and then going off half-cocked in some direction that is totally opposite of what i've said.

but before i end my communication with you, please read my words.

everyone, ALONE, makes the choice to accept or reject the gift of eternal life.

NOWHERE have i said that they come to faith on their own, or get to heaven on their own merits, but i have said, and i'll say it again because you are incorrect, it is not SELF righteousness that gets us to heaven.

[Guest Greg Davies]

According to Rom. 8:29, predestination is based on God's foreknowledge. The Lord knows whether we will receive the free gift of salvation or not. So He predestines us according to His foreknowlege of what we will chose.

Our eternal destiny is in our hands by the choices we make. God gave us free will, but because He is God, He already knows what we will do.

The promises of God are Yes and Amen (II Cor. 1:20) to all who believe. Every man has the opportunity to receive the fullness of God. If we mix His word with faith, we will receive (Heb 4:2).

Jesus died for the sin of the whole world and God is not willing that any should perish (II Pet. 3:9 and John 3:16). It all hinges on our believing, on our receiving what God has freely given. What mercy! What grace!

Greg.

[JB Horn]

jb, i don't know if you are intentionally twisting what i say or if you're just not grasping it, but i think i'll stop discussing this with you because you're not willing to listen carefully. it's like you're hearing bits and pieces and then going off half-cocked in some direction that is totally opposite of what i've said.

but before i end my communication with you, please read my words.

everyone, ALONE, makes the choice to accept or reject the gift of eternal life.

NOWHERE have i said that they come to faith on their own, or get to heaven on their own merits, but i have said, and i'll say it again because you are incorrect, it is not SELF righteousness that gets us to heaven.

I never said SELF righteousness will get us to heaven. I said that you can not choose to be righteous or someone would done so. If you believe that you came to your faith on your own then you earned your way to heaven, good for you. I did not, my faith was given to me. Paul speaks much of election and at looking on how he came by his faith in Christ you can see why.

JB

http://inhisword.net

[EricH]

How do you define fairness? Is it fair some people are born into poverty while others are born into wealth? Is it fair that some people are born into hrisitian families, while some are not? Is it fair that some live in cultures that are antagonistic to the gospel and some do not?

[Guest LadyC]

If you believe that you came to your faith on your own then you earned your way to heaven, good for you.

please quote what portion of what i said even so much as implied that. for the life of me, i really can't figure out where you're getting your ideas from, because it doesn't even resemble what i've said.

[JB Horn]

If you believe that you came to your faith on your own then you earned your way to heaven, good for you.

please quote what portion of what i said even so much as implied that. for the life of me, i really can't figure out where you're getting your ideas from, because it doesn't even resemble what i've said.

everyone, ALONE, makes the choice to accept or reject the gift of eternal life.

Is it not by faith you come to salvation? Can you accept the gift of eternal life without faith? Christ says all those who believe in Him shall have eternal life.

If I miss-understood and you did not come by that faith "ALONE" I apologies. But I would be interested in knowing how you can make that choice without first having the faith to do so.

Love

JB

http://inhisword.net

[Guest Biblicist]

Self-Righeousness and CHOICE are the same thing. Either you can choose right or you can not. The Bible tells we can not. To believe that one can choose God without His intervention is thinking too highly of oneself.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

[JB Horn]

Self-Righeousness and CHOICE are the same thing. Either you can choose right or you can not. The Bible tells we can not. To believe that one can choose God without His intervention is thinking too highly of oneself.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

For it is written.

[Guest LadyC]

If you believe that you came to your faith on your own then you earned your way to heaven, good for you.

please quote what portion of what i said even so much as implied that. for the life of me, i really can't figure out where you're getting your ideas from, because it doesn't even resemble what i've said.

everyone, ALONE, makes the choice to accept or reject the gift of eternal life.

Is it not by faith you come to salvation? Can you accept the gift of eternal life without faith? Christ says all those who believe in Him shall have eternal life.

If I miss-understood and you did not come by that faith "ALONE" I apologies. But I would be interested in knowing how you can make that choice without first having the faith to do so.

Love

JB

http://inhisword.net

i came to faith by way of the Holy Spirit. i came to accept Christ as a concious act on my part. people can believe in God and have faith that He exists without accepting eternal life. but they can not accept salvation without faith. i think where you're getting confused about my post is that you, seemingly, think faith and salvation are interchangeable words, but they aren't.

scripture says, by the way, that if anyone believes IN HIS HEART and confesses with his mouth that Jesus is LORD, they will be saved.

even the demons believe in Jesus Christ. they aren't going to heaven.

we alone have the ability to accept or reject Christ as our personal saviour. that is not an act of self-righteousness. that is an act of SUBMISSION to His righteousness.

the Bible also says (sorry bib, but i'm disagreeing with you) choose you this day whom you will serve. so the Bible does not tell us we are incapable of choosing. contrarily, it commands us to make that choice.