Former Atheist Darwinian Philosopher Explains his

[kari21]

Former Atheist Darwinian Philosopher Explains his

[Knowlij]

Former Atheist Darwinian Philosopher Explains his

[Hunterpoet]

Thank you for posting this. I hope all our atheist friends here at worthy get to read it.

[undone]

Follow the evidence. How many times have I heard that from non-believers on these boards.

Yet I think it goes beyond that. It's not only a matter of following the evidence, but a sober and honest evaluation of that evidence....then acting on it.

Psalm 14:1

1 The fool [a] says in his heart,

"There is no God."

They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;

there is no one who does good.

[damo1]

Thank you for posting this. I hope all our atheist friends here at worthy get to read it.

Ok, I've read that. Now you guys should read this to get the whole picture, especially the last two pages:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/magazine...amp;oref=slogin

In

[damo1]

i read what you left and i cant see how this man was exploited please explaine how he is senial shpuld he be able to use his own brain when ever something good comes up on a christian forum it has to be always attacked i went into that link you left when you said hear is the ful picture so what are you trying to point out hear please explaine ?

Sorry, I thought it was plain. The old man is senile; possibly suffering from dementia - he can't remember much. He cannot remember any of the stuff in the book that he is supposed to have just written. The truth is that someone else wrote the book, and made it look like Anthony Flew wrote it himself. Mr Flew himself does not know what is in the book. He is being exploited.

damo1 monday 5th of nov

to davem high

ok you said he can not remeber any of the stuff in the book that he is supposed to have just wrote it him self

i jotted a fair bit down from the link you left and this is also what it said in the link you have left if every one who goes into the link takes their time like i did i even read it twice know i am giving my brain a rest as their is so much a person can take lol i even cut back on how much time i spend on line know and even playing the x box with my son

got new x box and i am just about to try out halo 3 to see what al the fuss is about but what i hate you can not play old x box games on new one or even put a chip in like with the x box 360

ok it says this flew stil rejects christianity saying that he only know belives in an inteligance that explains both its own existance and that of the world

evengalicals are understandably excited

for them flew has become very usefull

so i can not see how this man is senial he has just come to a point in his life wear he is saying that he belives that god is real what is wrong with him saying this

i can tel you of one guy who was hard to crack and when he was cracked he finaly said to me know i see why you have stuck to this religon he was in the same way of thinking as you davem and this guy was my close friend he tried everything he could throw at me to get me to give up christianty he even gave me things to read on what he discovered about the religon i read this and sent him things back that i found also about this religon their wear times wear he would ring me after church and teling me to get back to my old way of thinking

in the long run my atheist friend just decided to stop pressuring me as he saw that he was loosing he to thought i was senial davem we were like blood brothers and he went out of his way to make sure i was not being brain washed and now we are even more close since he came around with out me pushing my religon onto him

it also said in that link he got some magor awards and people even supported him

yes authors sometimes forget what they say but this guy has had a long fulfilled life when my grand father died in 2003 my grand mother began to lose it davem to the point wear she was diagnosed with dementor one day my grand mother was found in her night gown in some one elses house cooking breakfast thinking my grandfather was coming home

my grand mother was a smart women and she fel in love with my grandfather when she was only 16yrs old i new she had a brokken heart as my grandfather meant the world to her and when she had to burry her own husband she began to lose it

so when i hear some one like you saying what you said i had to question you davem as this shows me that you have no real feelings for people that have given their best in this world

he is getting on in his life so what he has woken up and said i now see that it is all real it does not mean he is senial

her husband killed over 13 germans when they surrounded our village hunting down jewish familys my grand mother soon passed away in 2004 and i say it was a brokken heart not dementor that caused her to give in

i am glad that he has been able to use his own brain and i say good on him so why so up set davem are you up set that another atheist is saying god is real

[kari21]

Hmmmm....are ALL scientists who come to believe in Intelligent Design senile?

[damo1]

damo1

to davem

high i read what you left me only just signed on and going threw the forums and found this topic

i sort of feel that he wanted to also be heard in his way of frame as i feel that no one was using him at all and those people do have respect for their older generation as i feel us young folk can learn from our older generation what is sad is this

when our older generation is just left alone this shows me that its like an old bottle of milk when it passes its use by date we throw it and get a new one

with this man i feel he had something to say so i cant see how this is sad

with my grand mother before she passed away a unitting church minister prayed with her and she redeicated her life back to god as one of her wishes was for me to find peace and settle in a good church

i was told before my grand mother began to lose it by her own son and before my grandad even passed away in 2004 i got to spend time with him as he came down with my uncle to my wedding and he sat me down and told me in tears that his wife would constantly pray for me i did not know of this and then just the other day it hit me how much she cared for me

and coming to your question i would not have alowed any one to take advantage off her yet my uncle kept a close eye on her as they did not belive in putting his mother in a nursing home

they had around the clock shifts keeping an eye on her and when his kids wear home from school they would spend time with their grand mother

i would get up to dates to how she is and i remember at one stage telling him before her time is up you promise me one thing i want a minister to be with her in her last hours and this was done for me

i just feel when ever some one comes to this faith from an athiest back ground people just seem to openly get up set

at least with this guy he made peace with god and i feel that god would have also been watching over this man

hear wear i live our young people and even my self viset nursing homes and we spend an hour or 2hrs with the older generation that have been forgotten by their own family members

this is what gets up my nose davem and i am glad this guy has good caring decen people around him

as i feel for those that are put into nursing homes to wear the staff have to look after them when i feel its the responsabilty of their family to do this

i mean they give time to their own kids they are their for their kids they work very hard to keep a roof over their heads and give their best to make sure the children they bring into this earth get a good start in life

and what do we do we just put them to the side as to say you have no use to us any more

no thank you no nothing this is wear i feel for these old people that stil have vast knowledge and can if one spends time pass on valuable skills

i am not attacking you but i am just puzzled to why many atheists get up set he has a free wil he decided to belive and i am sticking by the post left at the very start of this topic

and you have a right to have your say as well

have a good week davem from damo

[kari21]

Steve Laube (literary agent for Antony Flew's "There is a God") responds

In light of the NY Times controversy:

November 7, 2007

By Steve Laube

I had the privilege of serving as the Literary Agent for this project and can vouch for the veracity of it's composition and it's content. It is a marvelous book showing a brilliant mind "following the evidence."

I highly recommend you read the book for yourself and wrestle with the substance of its arguments. Be aware that Flew could now be described as a deist, not a theist, lest there be any misunderstanding of his conclusions.

The NT Times Magazine article referenced in other reviews could be categorized as an ad hominem argument (defined as "appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect, or attacking character and not content"). In an attempt to find a "story behind the story" the article sidesteps the actual story itself, which is that Antony Flew, a brilliant atheistic philosopher, has changed his mind about the existence of God.

Here is Antony Flew's response to the claim, made in the NY Times magazine article, that he did not write the book (from a statement issued by the publisher's office 11/7/2007):

"My name is on the book and it represents exactly my opinions. I would not have a book issued in my name that I do not 100 percent agree with. I needed someone to do the actual writing because I'm 84 and that was Roy Varghese's role. The idea that someone manipulated me because I'm old is exactly wrong. I may be old but it is hard to manipulate me. This is my book and it represents my thinking."

Harper One deputy publisher Mark Tauber adds, "We stand behind this book. Roy Varghese took Tony's thoughts and put them in publishable form. This is not an unusual practice." Tauber adds, "Unfortunately, the NYT Magazine writer generalized from Flew's aphasia to senility--which is far from accurate. Additionally, the NYT writer completely skipped the philosophical content of the book, dismissing Tony's arguments for God's existence in one word, calling it 'pseudoscience' and so insulting both Tony and anyone persuaded that these arguments might be true."

[kari21]

Well, it seems the NY Times is suggesting that Flew may have some mental problems, or at his old age he's becoming incompetent. Oh, but of course there always just has to be a problem when an atheist turns theist! Roy Abraham Varghese responds here:

Letters to the Editor

Magazine, The New York Times

620 Eight Avenue

New York, NY 10018

magazine@nytimes.com

Dear Editor:

First the good news: Antony Flew is alive and well (physically and mentally) contrary to what readers might assume from Mark Oppenheimer