Stop Sinning?

[Guest shiloh357]

Hopefully our view of sin has changed.

Specifically, what view? You seem to think in your arrogant presumption that you know what the rest of us are thinking, yet when asked to qualify that presumption you run in the other direcion. What "view" have you assigned to us that you think needs changed?

[tsth]

Shiloh,

You don't have to agree with this thread, anymore than I have to argue with you. I'm not getting your purpose here? What's the point of arguing this topic? Is it because you would rather people make the assumption that sin is ok? (I know you'll say it's not, so what's your point in the argument?) You've already said that you don't agree with my stance. And I say, "so be it"? But, for those who choose to view sin as something to depart from, let's be in agreement there, ok? You don't have to argue this, unless you're wanting to promote people continuing in sin. It's not profitable, and it devalues the effectual work of the Power of Jesus Christ to deliver/redeem people from their sins.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[kari21]

doesn't it really all hinge on what kind of person one is becoming instead of how many and what sins one has done?

as i suffer the consequences of the shame i feel in hurting another person or offending God, i fully expect to become the kind of person that does not hurt others or offend God. if a 2-year old can learn not to touch the hot stove so as not to suffer the consequences of a burned hand, surely as adults we can do the same thing.

Yes, that IS what it hinges upon. What is our view? Hopefully our view of sin has changed. What have we learned from the Scriptures and are we holding firmly to it, with a different outlook.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Of interest, Suzanne...

http://www.gotquestions.org/two-natures.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-daily.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/sinless-perfection.html

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

The Greek word

[tsth]

Yes kari,

Thank you. I understand what you are sharing. My point is that today's current church attender has strongly embraced the ideas that it is perfectly acceptable for a person to remain entrenched in sin, while all the while claiming with full-assurance that they will be going to dwell with The Most High God. I am proclaiming that we stop encouraging this belief system, and embrace the doctrines of the Word, that compel a believer to walk in "holiness and godliness" as a new creation. I wish we would stop clinging so tightly to a doctrine that is ruining whole households and walk in "newness" in Christ Jesus.

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

1 Thess. 4:7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

2 Peter 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

Romans 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(This is what the "grace" of God appeared for! See Titus 2.)

Why do we want to continue promoting that the oppression and mastery of sin, has not been defeated? Let's encourage one another with the effectual power of Jesus' death and resurrection. It proves His authority over death itself, so how could there not be mastery over our sins, if we will offer ourselves as mentioned above?

Just something to think about.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm not getting your purpose here?

My purpose here is to refute the unbibilical notion that Christians are held to a standard of sinless perfection and the misuse of Scripture to forward the notion that a those who are truly born again never commit sin.

What's the point of arguing this topic? Is it because you would rather people make the assumption that sin is ok? (I know you'll say it's not, so what's your point in the argument?)

As I stated, no one is justifying or condoning sin. My point is that sinless perfection, where no one ever commits another sin as a Christian cannot be supported in the Bible.

Secondly, my point is that even if you did everything right and never committed a sin, even your works of righteousness would be tainted because the sin nature has not been eradicated, which is why our flesh continues war against our spirit. It is why we still struggle with temptation. We are not in bondage to sin, but that does not mean that we still don't struggle with it.

You've already said that you don't agree with my stance. And I say, "so be it"? But, for those who choose to view sin as something to depart from, let's be in agreement there, ok? You don't have to argue this, unless you're wanting to promote people continuing in sin. It's not profitable, and it devalues the effectual work of the Power of Jesus Christ to deliver/redeem people from their sins.

Two things:

Right here you demonstrate that you have decided that anyone who disagrees with you wants to justify and condone and continue living in sin. That is the assumption you have been working from and you don't possess the respect or courtesy to even ASK if your assumption is correct. I would like you to cut and paste where ANYONE, myself included EVER stated that we want to "promote people continuing in sin." You won't do it, because you can't. You simply put the lie in our mouths to have something to accuse me/us of.

Secondly, you need to do some more mature study on the work of the blood and the work of cross as your handling of this issue is extremely sloppy and less than rudimentary.

The blood of Jesus forgives us of the sins we commit and cleanses our conscience. The cross delievers us from the power/bondage of sin. The blood of Jesus is a daily application. The cross was a one time deliverance. Read Romans 1-8 to learn the difference.

Sinless perfection is not commanded anywhere in Scripture and I defy you or anyone else to demonstrate that it is.

[tsth]

Joh 5:14 -

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

1Co 15:34 -

Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.

2Pe 2:14 -

With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed--an accursed brood!

If a person knows that he is committing sin, should he stop? Or, should he hold to the false ideology that it's ok to continue in it?

And should another person promote that to continue in it is acceptable?

yes or no.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

Joh 5:14 -

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

1Co 15:34 -

Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.

2Pe 2:14 -

With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed--an accursed brood!

In all three of these verses, both the context and grammatical structure in the Greek are talking about not living in habitual sin. The exhortation of Jesus in John is for the healed man to not continue in living in the sin he was living in prior. Peter is talking about those who live in an insatiable lust for sin to the point that they cannot stop (he is not talking about Christians who commit A sin). Paul's remark in 1 Corinthians is the same thing. He is commanding them to never commit another sin, but to stop living in sin and the Greek and the context completely attest.

None of those passages support the notion that we are to held to a standard of sinless perfection.

If a person knows that he is committing sin, should he stop? Or, should he hold to the false ideology that it's ok to continue in it?

And should another person promote that to continue in it is acceptable?

yes or no.

If a person knows that what he/she is about to do is a sin, then by all means they should stop. No one here is stating otherwise and neither are we promoting any ideology that it is ok to continue in sin. You are bearing false witness against me/us for implying that we are promoting that a person should continue in sin.

You, rather are promoting false doctrine that will serve no purpose but to bring other Christians under condemnation when they don't measure up to your subjective, unscrioptural standard.

[kari21]

Suzanne,

I also understand what you are trying to say. I agree that those who claim to be Christians, yet still willfully sin, are Christians in name only. Jesus said the world will know his followers by their "fruits." A life of endless, willful sin while claiming to follow Christ is a life of soul-damning contradiction. Jesus himself asked, "Why do you call me Lord, yet you don't do what I tell you?" (Luke 6:46)

But the point we are trying to make, is that none of us will truly be free from sin in this life. We all will continue to stumble and fall. Nobody lived a life of sinless perfection next to Christ.

All we need to do is look at Paul. One of the greatest followers of our Lord. And this is what he said of himself: (After his conversion of course)

For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25)

[Emily~Anne]

I am wondering, is TSTH saying we should give up sinning in a more general term and that our mindset is that of a new creation and etc., or is she saying we are now to be absolutely 100% perfect, as in not even harbor an ill thought? I just want to make sure we are not misunderstanding. I know often times replies are made on assumptions of what a person is saying and sometimes that is not what they are saying.

[tsth]

I am wondering, is TSTH saying we should give up sinning in a more general term and that our mindset is that of a new creation and etc., or is she saying we are now to be absolutely 100% perfect, as in not even harbor an ill thought?

Thank you.

In His Love,

Suzanne