rapture i think not

[Guest shiloh357]

All the pre-trib people are coming out of the closet now, full force with their personal attacks, lies, insults, bla, bla bla...

No it is not personal attacks. It is a correct assessment of your poor behavior on these rapture threads. As for "lies," are you denying that you used terms to characterize others beliefs about the pre-trib rapture as "heresies," "satanic doctrines" and so forth?

No, we are just operating from a level of honesty you are unwilling to face up to. Namely, that it is not your position that is the problem. It is the hateful attitude with which you choose forward your views that is the problem. Calling other people's ideas "Devilish heresies" is far from productive, and if anything makes it harder for a genuine debate to continue.

Satan is having fun filling you all with false delusions. I have scripture to back up the truth regarding the catching away of the saints from Jesus' own words and you have nothing but man made heresies full of satan's lies.

And you want to talk about "personal" attacks? If this were said to anyone else on any other thread about any other belief, it would be considered personal attacks. As I said, you lack the maturity, integrity and strength of character to do anything but throw out hateful, vitriolic and petty remarks.

[Guest shiloh357]

All the pre-trib people are coming out of the closet now, full force with their personal attacks, lies, insults, bla, bla bla...

No it is not personal attacks. It is a correct assessment of your poor behavior on these rapture threads. As for "lies," are you denying that you used terms to characterize others beliefs about the pre-trib rapture as "heresies," "satanic doctrines" and so forth?

No, we are just operating from a level of honesty you are unwilling to face up to. Namely, that it is not your position that is the problem. It is the hateful attitude with which you choose forward your views that is the problem. Calling other people's ideas "Devilish heresies" is far from productive, and if anything makes it harder for a genuine debate to continue.

It is what it is,the truth should be told.

The truth can be told without denigrating someone's beliefs in the process. I guess it takes a certain level maturity...

[Guest shiloh357]

But the truth is that pretrib is a lie,a satanic doctrine,and a devilish heresy,how can that be said nicely? it is what it is.

That is only your opinion.

It cuts both ways. That kind of stuff could be said about what you or anyone else believes about anything.

You see, you can be right about something, but be wrong in the way you present it.

How about simply saying " I disagree, and here is why." Productive debate does not include disparaging remarks like "satanic lie".

[irishcowboy]

You know something?????

just found out......

that SALVATION IS NOT BY FAITH, BY BELIEF IN CHRIST JESUS BEING OUR KING, BEING THE MESSIAH,

but rather, on whether a person has properly based their believe on the pre, mid or post tribulation rapture.

one person says, if you do not believe in pre trib you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and believing the lies of satan.

another person says, if you do not believe in mid trib, you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and believing the lies of satan,

and yet another person says, if you do not believe in the post trib rapture, you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and spreading of lies.....

I say this, if a person believes in Christ, Jesus, as being the True, One and Only Living Son of the Living God, that He died and rose from the grave, setting us free from the bondage of our sins. then we have salvation. then we will be living our lives as Christ would live it, treating others as Christ would treat them. not out of duty, but out of love.

any other thing has no baring on whether or not we go to heaven or hell, it does not matter if a person is sprinkled when they get baptised or whether they get dunked...... getting dunked with out the heart being in the right place only does one thing, and that is gets the person wet........

there is no other standard for salvation........

V.R.

mike

[Isa]

You know something?????

just found out......

that SALVATION IS NOT BY FAITH, BY BELIEF IN CHRIST JESUS BEING OUR KING, BEING THE MESSIAH,

but rather, on whether a person has properly based their believe on the pre, mid or post tribulation rapture.

one person says, if you do not believe in pre trib you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and believing the lies of satan.

another person says, if you do not believe in mid trib, you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and believing the lies of satan,

and yet another person says, if you do not believe in the post trib rapture, you are going to hell for heresies and satanic doctrine and spreading of lies.....

I say this, if a person believes in Christ, Jesus, as being the True, One and Only Living Son of the Living God, that He died and rose from the grave, setting us free from the bondage of our sins. then we have salvation. then we will be living our lives as Christ would live it, treating others as Christ would treat them. not out of duty, but out of love.

any other thing has no baring on whether or not we go to heaven or hell, it does not matter if a person is sprinkled when they get baptised or whether they get dunked...... getting dunked with out the heart being in the right place only does one thing, and that is gets the person wet........

there is no other standard for salvation........

V.R.

mike

Well said Mike, it is our belief in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us that saves us not any rapture. John 14:6 Jesus saidto him," I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except throug Me. Salvation is through none other, than the belief in Jesus Christ.

[kari21]

Pride has nothing to do with accepting Gods word over false doctrine and refusing to be moved.

Onwingsaseagles, whenever I read one of your posts, all I feel is your pride and arrogance. It has nothing to do with right or wrong, it's all about YOU and what YOU think we all should believe. As if you are this great theologian, to whom we all must surrender our opinions and beliefs. You've already hurt the feelings of one dear member here to the point where he wishes to leave the boards. You have zero humility, and even less tact.

For such a great Christian as yourself, I don't see one ounce of the love of Jesus showing through you.

I pray the Lord will touch your spirit, and heal you...

[exrockstar]

eagels,

when scripture says "Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him (Christ), riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."

who do you think are the ones wearing white (and clean) following Christ?"

[exrockstar]

eagels,

when scripture says "Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him (Christ), riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."

who do you think are the ones wearing white (and clean) following Christ?"

I believe they are the dead in Christ coming with Jesus from heaven as said in 1st thess 4:14 read verses 13-18 to get the whole context.

do you believe they have received their resurrected bodies?

[exrockstar]

eagels,

when scripture says "Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him (Christ), riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."

who do you think are the ones wearing white (and clean) following Christ?"

I believe they are the dead in Christ coming with Jesus from heaven as said in 1st thess 4:14 read verses 13-18 to get the whole context.

do you believe they have received their resurrected bodies?

No I believe they receive their heavenly bodies at the 2nd coming and so do those that are still here on earth.

But they are the ones returning with Christ from heaven at the 2nd coming,partly to receive their heavenly bodies at that time.

so you believe they will be "temporarily" resurrected with their earthly bodies?

then given their new heavenly bodies? or they will be floating spirits with no form?

i havent read any scripture that says that one will be resurrected with their earthly bodies or anything else.

im not getting what your saying. maybe you feel that they will be bodiless?

im curious. please explain.

in short, what bodies will they have before the 2nd coming?

[Guest shiloh357]

But the truth is that pretrib is a lie,a satanic doctrine,and a devilish heresy,how can that be said nicely? it is what it is.

That is only your opinion.

It cuts both ways. That kind of stuff could be said about what you or anyone else believes about anything.

You see, you can be right about something, but be wrong in the way you present it.

How about simply saying " I disagree, and here is why." Productive debate does not include disparaging remarks like "satanic lie".

You need to take you own advice, shiloh357, and quit telling others here how to present anything. I can pull up insult after insult, personal attacks, falsehood and lies about others posted by you to many others here just because they disagreed with you, even when scripture was staring you in the face. You are not in any position to tell anyone anything, as your own nasty remarks have discredited everything you say, even tho you blame others for it.

Yes, I am sure you can pull up lots of things I have said, but when you do, they will isolated, out context, bereft of what precipiated my remarks and of course, the subject matter at the time will be ignored. I have said a lot of sharp things to a lot of people. I have battled against Replacement Theology, anti-Semitism and as I recall back in the day when you and I were still friends, you offered not one word of rebuke and stood shoulder to shoulder with me and supported me against those things.

I said some harsh things in response to those who denigrated Israel unfairly, and who tried to paint me as a legalist, or who accused me of "Israel worship" or "idolizing the Jews," but I was responding to false values and allegations being leveled at me personally, calling those things exactly what they were.

I am not ashamed of what I said, because in the context they occurred, my remarks at those times, were appropriate, and to be honest at the time I said them, you seemed to think so to, paritularly when I joined up with you in the Replacement Theology thread you started back last December.

Have I been perfect? No. I have, like everyone else, jumped to a conclusion and shot off my mouth or got emotionally overheated and said something I should not have, and had to eat crow later. That is life, I still sin, and really none of us is immune from that. But I have not, to my knowledge referred to a position on a nonessential issue, which I disagreed with as "devilsh heresies" or "Satanic doctrine." So go ahead and pull up what you want, Toni. Pull it all up. I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of.

Nothing I have said provides any excuse for your behavior in this thread.

I have no problem calling things that are heretical, "heresy." I have no problem calling genuine false doctrine what it is. The rapture is not on par with the true heresies that are floating around that deny the Deity of Jesus, the efficacy of His sacrifice and the character and operations of God. Heresy only applies to perversions of essential doctrines of the Christian faith. It is not something that can be thrown around to denigrate anyone else's view with which we disagree.

There is a real problem when a nonessential issue which warrants no hostility, is constantly beleagered with charges of "heresy" and "Satanic doctrine." Those are just emotional rants and are not productive at all.

No it does not cut both ways and no it is not "his opinion", whether you like it or not. What he says comes right from the teachings of Jesus and Paul, unlike your opinions.

I am sorry, but that is still just an opinon. It may be settled in your mind, but the issue is not settled.

So now you are trying to control the words people use here because it happens to be the truth and doesn't meet with your approval?!

I am not trying to control anyone's words. I am talking about having some semblence of politeness and tact about this issue.

Jesus didn't appease the Jews when he confronted them: He said:

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

As a side note, Jesus did not say that to "the Jews." Jesus was talking to His enemies among the religious leaders in Israel.

Having said that, Jesus could say those kinds of things, because Jesus was sinless. Jesus could call the religious leaders open sepluchers full of dead men's bones. He call them all kinds of things and did. Jesus had the right to say those things because Jesus was not only sinless, but He was/is also God. Jesus could say what He said, because Jesus had the ability to see each person's heart. Jesus' could accurately assess who and what a person was and therfore, was divinely qualified to speak to the Pharisees as He did. Furthermore, as sharp as those things were, Jesus never said anything that was not motivated by love. Jesus' rebuke was not based in hatred or the fleshly desire to denigrate and belittle and make fun of anyone.

You do not have the same privilege to throw around denigrations at other people while looking down your arrogant, self-righteous snoot at anyone who dare have the temerity to disagree with you. Your denigrations are simply that. You never miss an opportunity to get all hateful and vindictive with me. All you are here to do is to belittle, make fun of and spit the most hateful, disparagements you can think of at people you either don't like or disagree with.