Christians and the beach

[Scarletprayers]

Oh brother....................................WHERE did anybody argue against it?

[Guest shiloh357]

Oh brother....................................WHERE did anybody argue against it?

No one has argued against or negated the woman't responsibility.

[Vickilynn]

Oh brother....................................WHERE did anybody argue against it?

Shalom SP,

You can save the sarcasm dear.

All y'all that are stating it's not the woman's responsibility to be concerned about modest dress are arguing against Scripture.

No one said that it is not ALSO the man's responsibility to avert his eyes. But, you see, that's not the topic of this article, is it? And all y'all are just arguing for nothing. The OP does not state that it is ONLY women. But the article is stating that it IS women (inclusive, not exclusive).

Some of you people get so riled up about nothing. Goodness.

Yes, the man bears responsibility for what he sees. That does not negate the WOMAN'S responsibility to be modest in dress according to 1 Timothy.

[Guest shiloh357]

All y'all that are stating it's not the woman's responsibility to be concerned about modest dress are arguing against Scripture.

Copy and paste where any of us have said that. You won't because you cant.

[Emily~Anne]

There really has been alot of defensiveness on part of the issue of women's modest dress. I think that is why there is so much ranting about how men need to look the other way and yada, yada. I used to live with an alcoholic, and each time he got drunk, he'd find same way to point the finger at me and make everything out to be my fault. I didnt make enough sweet tea so he had to drink beer, he had to drink beer cause he was upset cause of something I did and yada yada. It was the whole blame diverting game. Us women, what is the point is us crying out 'foal!' and pointing fingers at men who do not keep their thoughts pure? Are us women supposed to be exhorting the men to keep their thoughts pure? No, I think we are best just to focus on ourselves and dressing reasonably modest (I dont think amish bathing suits and burkas are called for however) and keep in mind Titus 2:3-5 and that to quote Vickilynn: it is the older WOMEN'S responsibility to teach the younger ones in this and other areas of the being a G-dly woman.

Vickilynn, I totally agree with you, and I applaud you for having the guts to stand up for biblical truth.

[Scarletprayers]

Yeah...........thats it..........................

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

This is an excerpt from an interesting study by John Macarthur:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg54-14.htm

2. The meaning of "adorn"

The Greek word kosme[ma]o means "to arrange" or "to put in order. " Paul is saying women should prepare themselves for worship. The Greek word translated "modest" (kosmios), the adjectival form of kosme[ma]o, means "well-ordered," or "well- arranged. "

3. The meaning of "apparel"

The Greek word translated "apparel" in the King James Version does not refer only to clothing, but can mean "demeanor" or "attitude. " It encompasses a woman's total preparation for worship, involving both the attitude of the heart and proper adornment on the outside. Her clothing should reflect a heart focused on God.

B. The Specific Problems

Paul not only gives a general exhortation about women's appearance, but also deals with some specific issues that were problems in Ephesus.

1. Imitating their culture

Several ancient writers have described what women were dressed like in the Roman culture of Paul's day, which no doubt influenced the church at Ephesus:

a) Juvenal

The writings of this first-century Roman satirical poet picture everyday life in the Roman Empire. In his sixth satire he described women who were preoccupied with their appearance: "There is nothing that a woman will not permit herself to do, nothing that she deems shameful, and when she encircles her neck with green emeralds and fastens huge pearls to her elongated ears, so important is the business of beautification; so numerous are the tiers and stories piled one another on her head! In the meantime she pays no attention to her husband!"

b) Philo

Philo was a Jewish Hellenistic philosopher of the first century. In his work The Sacrifices of Cain and Abel, he described a prostitute bedecked with a multitude of gold chains and bracelets as having her hair dressed in elaborate braids, her eyes marked with pencil lines, her eyebrows smothered in paint, and her expensive clothes embroidered lavishly with flowers (19-21).

c) Pliny the Elder

This first-century Roman historian told of Lollia Paulina, one-time wife of the Roman Emperor Caligula, who had a dress worth more than one million dollars by today's standards. It was covered from head to food with emeralds and pearls, and she carried with her the receipts proving its value (Natural History ix, 58).

In contrast to Roman society, the mystery religions of Greece had very stringent rules about the appearance of women. One inscription that has been discovered illustrates their concern: "A consecrated woman shall not have gold ornaments, nor rouge, nor face whitening, nor a head-band, nor braided hair, nor shoes, except those made of felt or of the skins of sacrificed animals" (cited in William Barclay's The Letters to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon, rev. ed. [Philadelphia: Westminster, 1975], pp. 67-68).

Both Paul and Timothy were concerned that the Ephesian church be a godly testimony to society. For the women of the church to imitate the gaudy clothing styles of pagan women, to call attention to themselves, or to dress to lure men into illicit sexual relationships was to blaspheme the intent of the worship service.

2. Flaunting their wealth

In the first-century, poverty was widespread. A wealthy person could dress in a style that was impossible for a poor person to match, in contrast to today, where good clothing is relatively affordable for a large segment of Western society. A costly dress worn by a wealthy woman could cost up to 7,000 denarii (one denarius was a day's wage for the average laborer). When a wealthy woman entered the worship service wearing an expensive dress, she caused a sensation that would disrupt the entire service.

In addition to expensive dresses, rich women would also display their wealth through elaborate hairdos with expensive jewelry woven into them. (That's what "braided hair" [v. 9] was to Paul. ) They would also wear gold rings and earrings, and hang gold on their sandals and dresses.

It should be noted that the Bible does not forbid women to wear simple braids or to own gold, pearls, and fine clothes. Both the bride of Solomon (Song of Sol. 1:10) and the woman described in Proverbs 31:22 owned expensive apparel. However the Bible does forbid wearing those things for wrong motives.

Seductresses in the Church

After a sermon a while ago I walked out the door of the sanctuary, and was approached by a woman who was overly dressed and not appropriately attired for church. She handed me an expensive piece of jewelry, a gold chain, and a note soliciting me. That was overt, but there are much more subtle solicitations that go on all the time in the church. Anyone who doesn't realize that has their head in the sand--just look how many pastors fall prey to sexual sin, and how many churches have to deal with immorality. That is one of the reasons for Paul's strong words in 1 Timothy 2:9-10.

Bringing Down the Curtain on the Fashion Show in the Church

John Chrysostom, the fourth-century church father, wrote this in his homily on 1 Timothy 2:8-10 concerning the importance of women dressing modestly for the worship service: "What is this 'modest apparel'? Such attire as covers them completely, and decently, and not with superfluous ornaments for the one is becoming, the other is not. What? Dost thou approach God to pray with broidered hair and ornaments of gold? Art thou come to a dance? to a marriage? to a gay procession? There such . . . costly garments, had been seasonable; here not one of them is wanted. Thou art come to pray, to supplicate for pardon of thy sins, to plead for thine offenses, beseeching the Lord, and hoping to render Him propitious to thee. . . . Away with such hypocrisy!

The church is to be a place where worship happens, not where people put on a show. It bothers me when I see people who claim to be Christians display a consuming preoccupation with their appearance. Whenever self- centered women take advantage of the worship service to call attention to themselves, it will bring great tragedy to the church.

C. The Proper Motives

1. Of married women

A Christian wife should seek to attract attention to her godly character, not her clothing. She should show by her dress and demeanor her love and devotion to her own husband. She should demonstrate a humble heart committed to worshiping God.

2. Of single women

Single women need to realize that the worship service isn't the place to try to attract men. They too should understand it is more important that someone be attracted to their godly character rather than their outward appearance.

How can both married and single women know if they are dressed properly for the worship service? By examining their motives. Ask yourself, Why am I dressed the way I am? What is my goal? Am I trying to draw attention to God or to myself? Will what I'm wearing stand out or will it be considered appropriate for the occasion?

First Peter 3:3-4 is a parallel passage to 1 Timothy 2:9-10. Peter writes, "Whose adorning, let it not be that outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel, but let it be the hidden man of the heart in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. "

Like Paul, Peter emphasizes that a woman is not to be preoccupied with what she wears, but who she is.

[Guest shiloh357]

There really has been alot of defensiveness on part of the issue of women's modest dress. I think that is why there is so much ranting about how men need to look the other way and yada, yada.

So, is someone wrong for saying men need to look the other way??? I don't see how you see that "defensive." If anything the message is that men need to have modesty of heart and respect women enough not to oggle them and treat them as sex objects.

If you can provide reasons for why that is either unscriptural or "defensive" I would be happy to examine the evidence.

Us women, what is the point is us crying out 'foal!' and pointing fingers at men who do not keep their thoughts pure? Are us women supposed to be exhorting the men to keep their thoughts pure?

Who indictaed that it was your responsiblity in the first place????

I am a man and I am speaking as man to other men and making the exhortation myself. I am not leaving it up to women. Again, provide a copy and paste of any post that says otherwise.

Frankly, all that is being done is attributing false statements, values and arguments to others' positions. The things alleged by you and Vickilynn have not been posted by anyone else, and these false accusations should be retracted.

[Vickilynn]

There really has been alot of defensiveness on part of the issue of women's modest dress. I think that is why there is so much ranting about how men need to look the other way and yada, yada. I used to live with an alcoholic, and each time he got drunk, he'd find same way to point the finger at me and make everything out to be my fault. I didnt make enough sweet tea so he had to drink beer, he had to drink beer cause he was upset cause of something I did and yada yada. It was the whole blame diverting game. Us women, what is the point is us crying out 'foal!' and pointing fingers at men who do not keep their thoughts pure? Are us women supposed to be exhorting the men to keep their thoughts pure? No, I think we are best just to focus on ourselves and dressing reasonably modest (I dont think amish bathing suits and burkas are called for however) and keep in mind Titus 2:3-5 and that to quote Vickilynn: it is the older WOMEN'S responsibility to teach the younger ones in this and other areas of the being a G-dly woman.

Vickilynn, I totally agree with you, and I applaud you for having the guts to stand up for biblical truth.

Shalom Emily Anne,

Amen. I agree with you. And your example of your own situation is so relevant to what we're seeing. Thank you for sharing.

Titus 2: 3-5

3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

[Emily~Anne]

There really has been alot of defensiveness on part of the issue of women's modest dress. I think that is why there is so much ranting about how men need to look the other way and yada, yada.

So, is someone wrong for saying men need to look the other way??? I don't see how you see that "defensive." If anything the message is that men need to have modesty of heart and respect women enough not to oggle them and treat them as sex objects.

If you can provide reasons for why that is either unscriptural or "defensive" I would be happy to examine the evidence.

Us women, what is the point is us crying out 'foal!' and pointing fingers at men who do not keep their thoughts pure? Are us women supposed to be exhorting the men to keep their thoughts pure?

Who indictaed that it was your responsiblity in the first place????

I am a man and I am speaking as man to other men and making the exhortation myself. I am not leaving it up to women. Again, provide a copy and paste of any post that says otherwise.

Frankly, all that is being done is attributing false statements, values and arguments to others' positions. The things alleged by you and Vickilynn have not been posted by anyone else, and these false accusations should be retracted.

Wow, you are defensive. You know, I did not even quote you. You assume I am referring to your posts. There are lots of female posters placing heavy emphasis on the need for men to keep their thoughts pure and etc. I just dont think that is the best place for a woman's primary focus to be and is not a very productive attitude. It is biblical to make an effort not to place a stumbling block in front of others, Granted some are such sex maniacs that even if a woman were dressed in a Burka they would still have lustful thoughst about that woman, but this does not absolve us of our responsiblity to try not to dress in a way that is sexually provocative.