Christians, tell your children there is no Santa Claus

[Ovedya]

This false accusation is a "good point'? Ovedya, you a Moderator? Come on. I'm so surprised at your responses.

What about saying we are "not being honest with ourselves" is right, truthful or a good point?

Excuse me?

So you think that it's not a good point for someone to point out the obvious? And what's my position as moderator have to do with my support of the point? You think that as a moderator I should remain silent on subjects in which I have a strong opinion? Pulease.

Listen, if anyone wants to live the lie of believing they're perfect, by all means, they have that right. But if someone quacks, I'm gonna call them a duck - moderator or not. Look, time after time in this thread I've written that lying to children is neither justified, right, or Biblical for any Christian. Yet you seems to gloss over that fact continually, stating "You all have not produced ONE Scripture that says it is OK to lie and deceive children." For some reason you keep repeating this point when I agreed with it pages ago.

Look, you're missing the bigger picture, here, sister. And it seems that, no matter how many times I repeat the point, you're just not getting it. So I'll outline it briefly for you, okay? Because maybe something in the way that I'm writing isn't getting the point across sufficiently enough. Either that or you're choosing to ignore them because for some reason you just can't bring yourself to agree with me.

1) The "Santa Claus lie" is no different in principal than lying to children about anything else. We both appear to agree on the point that we should not lie to children. The Bible condemns lying.

However: You and other posters here have been argued that lying to children and them expecting them to be truthful is hypocritical. I agree, but,

2) Be absolute about the issue of lying. Don't lie - to children or anyone. If you're going to expect children to be truthful, then be truthful yourself and,

3) Don't deceive yourself into thinking that you are perfect in any way and free from sin. The most honest believer is the one who concedes the fact that he does have sin and not perfect. Even concede the fact that you also lie on occasion and should therefore not expect perfection from anybody, much less children who lie on occasion even under the most "perfect parenting."

Finally, with regard to my exhortation of peace while posting. I simply cannot fathom how any believer cannot get that point. I can scream at the top of my lungs with an angry face for my dear wife to pass me the pepper at the dinner table and she would be completely offended. Yet I'm supposed to believe that there's no harm in that because the content of my words was innocuous? So how as a believer do I have the right to speak harshly to my brothers and sisters and expect that, because I'm doing so "Biblically" it's okay? Hey, "don't shoot the messenger," right? Nonsense! The Bible clearly exhorts us to be a people of peace with one another. If we can't be one with each other, how can we possibly expect to present a united front for the Gospel to the world?

Seriously.

[patricia1]

my daughter never was told about Santa but somehow she believes in him. I have told her about where chris kringle came from. She knows it is a day to celebrate Jesus' Birthday. I do agree with leanard in letting children be children. I just do not want to correct her truth right now. If i lie by omission so be it.

It should not affect her faith in you. My girlfriend did that...removed all the so called pagan holidays... one does not talk to her and she wishes she did things differently, But she did not know better and was under the spell, yes I said spell of legalism. Not to say anyone else here is but that is where she was.

Jesus will take care of it....I know God enjoys the christmas season here....

[Ovedya]

Ovedya IS a mod

Now, can we please keep this civilized, folks?

Then Ovedya should be the one to call it like it is. Who is being civil and who is not. If presenting God's Word and offering admonishment is considered uncivil then that is a problem isn't it?

It's only a problem if the admonishment is delivered in a fashion that causes offense.

[Ovedya]

Do you think it is ok for our children to believe that santa is omnipresent?

Omnipresent? Don't you mean "omniscient"?

[Ovedya]

Personally, I think that Ovedya is largely wrong in this matter, but that is only my own personal opinion.

Wrong how?

[Ovedya]

What is the proper way to celebrate Jesus's birth?

There is no "proper way."

The Bible does not command or establish by example that Jesus' birth should be celebrated in any manner.

The tradition of celebrating one's birth is purely of man's invention.

[sweetycakes]

Personally, I think that Ovedya is largely wrong in this matter, but that is only my own personal opinion.

Wrong how?

Only really in the sense that you think the website about Santa is 'overboard', and also maybe where you said:

"Children are no more harmed by the myth of Santa Claus than they are by the myth of the tooth fairy or the myth of the Easter Bunny."

The tooth fairy and easter bunny do not dominate just about every advertisement and every 'trapping' of Christmas, like santa does, and I think he takes the focus off Jesus.

[Guest Biblicist]

Ovedya IS a mod

Now, can we please keep this civilized, folks?

Then Ovedya should be the one to call it like it is. Who is being civil and who is not. If presenting God's Word and offering admonishment is considered uncivil then that is a problem isn't it?

It's only a problem if the admonishment is delivered in a fashion that causes offense.

Ovedya...the Gospel is offensive, do you believe we should stop telling it just so we do not cause offense?

Paul never pulled his punches when confronting someone about sin, neither did Jesus, who is our prime example, why should we? [sometimes I am snocked at the terminology Jesus used with people ] Because we might offend? Using the words hypocrite, lier, sinner, white washed tomb are the very same words Christ used in His message. Since we can only read His words and never hear them we can only assume that they were spoken in love. Why do you not assume that of anyone here who repeats the message?

Why is it that when someone points out the Word of God they are accused of speaking harshly? You don't have the right to believe anyone was "screaming at the top of their lungs" while presenting anything here. Any more than you can believe that Jesus did so when he gave the sermon on the mount or admonished the people in the temple. Righteous anger is OK. Especially when it is about sin.

Not a single person here said they never lie, or that any lie [little white lies] is OK. What was stated, and I can go back and find it for you if you wish, is that if you lie, you better apologize. To willingly lie, and continually lie, while expecting other's [children] to tell the truth is hypocracy. We all lie, this is true, but to lie and never seek redemption for it is a sin.

When it comes to sin...Jesus Christ clearly tells us he came to divide. There are divisions because some are unwilling to admit the sin in their lives and turn from it. They want Grace without law. Faith without works is dead. Obedience to the Law does not save us, NO, however, The Law shows us where we need work so we can present ourselves perfect before Christ. (Romans 3:20) And we are to warn other's of the very same thing, so we can present them perfect before Christ. (Colossians 1:28) If we see someone in sin we are told to correct them. In love and humility.

[Guest Biblicist]

my daughter never was told about Santa but somehow she believes in him. I have told her about where chris kringle came from. She knows it is a day to celebrate Jesus' Birthday. I do agree with leanard in letting children be children. I just do not want to correct her truth right now. If i lie by omission so be it.

It should not affect her faith in you. My girlfriend did that...removed all the so called pagan holidays... one does not talk to her and she wishes she did things differently, But she did not know better and was under the spell, yes I said spell of legalism. Not to say anyone else here is but that is where she was.

Jesus will take care of it....I know God enjoys the christmas season here....

The "spell" of legalism is assuming that if someone does not adhere to The Law, they will not get into Heaven. Questioning someone's salvation because they are not adhering to The Law is legalism. "That person swears in public, they must not be a Christian." "This person teaches things against God's word, they must not be saved." "You are not going to get into Heaven if you dress like that." That is legalism.

Expecting other's to adhere to the Word of God is not legalism. It's proper Biblical teaching. And training one's children in the nurture and admonition of the LORD is not legalism, it's the way God wants us to train up our children.

If your friends child is not speaking to her, I would think it has more to do with "pagan" holidays...My Uncle was, what some considered, a legalistic Pastor/father. His son became homosexual. It really didn't have anything to do with his father's teachings...If you want to read his testimony you can find it here. It's called Aids Saved My Life.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I closed this thread because there are many reports on it and I'm certain quite a few PM's flying around. It contains personal attacks and even insults.

To borrow a phrase, "For cryin out's sake."

What a way to celebrate our Lords Birth?

I had the opportunity to speak or Advocate on behalf of the poor Sunday Night. What an honor, the Lord has Truly blessed me. As I prepared to speak before the Faithful, I was mindful of the poor and of how the Lord doesn't appear before the courts of the world or even those we might call powerful. He brings the Good News to the lowly Shepherd.

Lu