How Were the Jews Saved?

[tsth]

Why don't you start another thread on what you really want to say? It seems you had another agenda in mind, but the question you asked is about salvation.

It has been answered : by grace through faith in Messiah

Yes, but considering this is a thread that I started, it began going into a different direction, and I found that acceptable. So, you might want to go back and reread it from the 1st and see the progression, that brought it to this point.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

Why don't you start another thread on what you really want to say? It seems you had another agenda in mind, but the question you asked is about salvation.

It has been answered : by grace through faith in Messiah

Yes, but considering this is a thread that I started, it began going into a different direction, and I found that acceptable. So, you might want to go back and reread it from the 1st and see the progression, that brought it to this point.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Shalom Suzanne,

No thanks.

Your question about SALVATION has been asked and answered. Your last post to be accused me of several things and I showed you that you were wrong. If you want to apologize, fine. If not, fine. I forgive you either way, but you were wrong for what you said.

If you title a thread about salvation and make that your OP question, you should not berate people replying in the thread for answering the OP about salvation as written.

[tsth]

Good points Sue, You know something caught my attention in your first paragraph. ( 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert. ) This reminded me of how I felt and discerned the catastrophe for many here in New Orleans, La when Hurricane Katrina struck. There was much evil to be felt prior to the storm for many years I used to wonder how God would deal with all the sin and degradation here. Sad thing is that much of it is coming back. Homosexuality, drugs adultery, drunkeness, theft and much more. And I am discerning that God is not finished with this lost city that is trying to do a repeat of earlier times. Bet you God will win!

Blessings

Cajunboy

Yes, I think He will make His point. Reminds me of this passage:

Job 36:10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil. 11 If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment. 12 But if they do not listen, they will perish by the sword and die without knowledge. 13 "The godless in heart harbor resentment; even when he fetters them, they do not cry for help. 14 They die in their youth, among male prostitutes of the shrines.

(But the choice is still there, for blessings or cursings. Living or dying.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Suzanne,

So you're not going to address that you were wrong for what you said? Hmmm. What about obedience? to the Word? Doesn't that apply to you, or is it just for others?

1 Peter 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love,love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

Well I just need to say something here. I was an alcoholic, I used drugs and smoked cigarettes----until JESUS!!!! Now I want to know if this makes me less of a Christian just because of what I used to do?????? Does this constitute I am disobedient, oh yeah I've been married three times and now a widow. I even hope to marry again! Boy now I am really in for it!

I guess I would really like to know what you have to offer someone in the world that is like what I was like?

I am not condemning or meaning what I said to Suzanne about my life to be a reflection on anyone else. I am not presenting myself as a holier than thou. I do miss the mark in my life. I can look back with much regret at times when I have let the Lord down.

I will tell what I do NOT have to offer to someone in the world and that is condemnation, shame or guilt. I am actually a very laid back person. I am a very accepting person in that I can hang out and love anyone who wants to be loved. I can and have eaten dinner with pot heads, and some of the most foul mouthed rednecks you have ever seen. I know and have worked with and had long conversations with people with a police rap sheet longer than your arm.

What I have discovered is that most people know that that they are messed up. They don't need us to tell them that. They may not agree with us about God, but they know because they have a witness inside them, a moral compass that God has given all of us, that their life is not what it should be. They already know they have made a mess of things, and whether they openly admit or not, they are seeking the answer they need to set things right.

But the Bible teaches that it is goodness of God that leads man to repentance. It is when we love the sinner genuinely, with no ulterior motives, no agenda, that they will see Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

And I would request that you find where that has been stated anywhere? For I do not believe that. Nor does Dennis, lest I couldn't be in agreement with him.

I am not accusing you or Dennis or anyone in this thread of that, but there have been, on this board, those who believed that works are necessary for salvation.

Which you and some others, seem to get riled over, when it is mentioned.

No, what I get riled over is the condescending tone in which these subjects are usually introduced and when you refuse to answer plain and simple questions that are put to you.

You always introduce these subjects as if the rest of us are a bunch of godless pagans who lust after sin while YOU are standing as the only beacon of holiness standing against the tide of unrighteousness. You may not mean it that way, but that is how you come across.

Let me tell you something Suzanne... I am not trying to brag or exalt myself, but just to give you some perspective of who you are speaking to, I am almost 41 yrs old and still a virgin. I have never been drunk, I do not drink, a cigarrette has never touched my lips, nor has any tobacco product. I have never used any drugs like cocaine, pot, or whatever. I have never even touched a woman intimately. I have never been arrested and have no record. I have never stolen anything in my life. 90% of the people on this board could not relate to how I live. I am a faithful, tithe paying member of my church.

I have kept myself pure, and am more than qualified to discuss this issue. I live what I believe and I know all about the price and sacrifices that obedience to God brings with it.

You need to stop acting like the rest of us in the church are just a bunching sin-loving heathens. It gets really, really old.

Shalom Shiloh,

I so appreciate you sharing about your life (and making yourself vulnerable to attacks). But, your testimony has greatly increased my faith as a Christian parent of 5. You are living the way that I pray my children will one day live and everyone keeps saying that in this world one cannot live as you, Shiloh, lives. You are a testament to the faithfulness of G-d in keeping you pure unto Himself. Thank you so much for sharing this, I know it wasn't easy.

Also, since MY own testimony is one of living in sin until I became saved and then for many years afterwards, I see how you are standing as an example of G-d's forgiveness, as HE makes us righteous by faith and it is OUR responsibility to talk it out in obedience. Again, thank you.

Shalom Vickilynn wonderful words! God bless you.

[LightofJesus]

Shiloh,

Well I just need to say something here. I was an alcoholic, I used drugs and smoked cigarettes----until JESUS!!!! Now I want to know if this makes me less of a Christian just because of what I used to do?????? Does this constitute I am disobedient, oh yeah I've been married three times and now a widow. I even hope to marry again! Boy now I am really in for it!

I guess I would really like to know what you have to offer someone in the world that is like what I was like?

I am not condemning or meaning what I said to Suzanne about my life to be a reflection on anyone else. I am not presenting myself as a holier than thou. I do miss the mark in my life. I can look back with much regret at times when I have let the Lord down.

I will tell what I do NOT have to offer to someone in the world and that is condemnation, shame or guilt. I am actually a very laid back person. I am a very accepting person in that I can hang out and love anyone who wants to be loved. I can and have eaten dinner with pot heads, and some of the most foul mouthed rednecks you have ever seen. I know and have worked with and had long conversations with people with a police rap sheet longer than your arm.

What I have discovered is that most people know that that they are messed up. They don't need us to tell them that. They may not agree with us about God, but they know because they have a witness inside them, a moral compass that God has given all of us, that their life is not what it should be. They already know they have made a mess of things, and whether they openly admit or not, they are seeking the answer they need to set things right.

But the Bible teaches that it is goodness of God that leads man to repentance. It is when we love the sinner genuinely, with no ulterior motives, no agenda, that they will see Christ.

Ok Shiloh,

I need to apologize for my misunderstanding of your post. I just read it as if you felt you had some special seat in the house here. I though, know I was what I was for a purpose by which God can use me for the comfort of those in the same position I was in. We have a ministry here in town where we minister to the misfits misdressed and misbehavin' types and they need Jesus too. It amazes me still how many of these are turned away to this day from "CHURCH".

Well shalom to you too Shiloh!!!

[Yahsway]

Greetings Shiloh, I just wanted to say that your last 2 posts brought tears to my eyes. I know exactly what you mean. I work in a mental health facility which takes people that no other mental health facility will take. They are throw-aways basically.

These people are so messed up its almost incomprehensable. Most are labeled shizophrenic, pyshcotic, delusional, ect.. And most have histories of drug and alcahol abuse, sexual abuse, murder, ect...

But I have found that by just loving them where they are right now, that it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. And who are we as believers but Gods intruments to show His love. I witnessed first hand one of the residents being healed by God and who now gives Him all the praise for setting her free thru Jesus. Not by power or by might but by His Spirit that works thru us.

I was attacked twice this week and afterwards the two gentlemen cried like babes and apologized and told me that they did not want to "be this way"

It was an opportunity for me to show the love of Yeshua to them and to testify of His coming to set them free. So you are right in that God has placed in man that moral compass.

Most of these people may never accept Yeshua, I do not know, I am not their judge. God has not called me to judge them but to love them and to let His light shine thru me so that they see Him, does that make sense?

Anyway, just wanted to let you know Shiloh how much I appreciate your honesty and what you said, cause it really really did hit home with me. Shalom dear brother

[Vickilynn]

Greetings Shiloh, I just wanted to say that your last 2 posts brought tears to my eyes. I know exactly what you mean. I work in a mental health facility which takes people that no other mental health facility will take. They are throw-aways basically.

These people are so messed up its almost incomprehensable. Most are labeled shizophrenic, pyshcotic, delusional, ect.. And most have histories of drug and alcahol abuse, sexual abuse, murder, ect...

But I have found that by just loving them where they are right now, that it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. And who are we as believers but Gods intruments to show His love. I witnessed first hand one of the residents being healed by God and who now gives Him all the praise for setting her free thru Jesus. Not by power or by might but by His Spirit that works thru us.

I was attacked twice this week and afterwards the two gentlemen cried like babes and apologized and told me that they did not want to "be this way"

It was an opportunity for me to show the love of Yeshua to them and to testify of His coming to set them free. So you are right in that God has placed in man that moral compass.

Most of these people may never accept Yeshua, I do not know, I am not their judge. God has not called me to judge them but to love them and to let His light shine thru me so that they see Him, does that make sense?

Anyway, just wanted to let you know Shiloh how much I appreciate your honesty and what you said, cause it really really did hit home with me. Shalom dear brother

:laugh:

[Pilgrim7]

Suzanne,

Yes the Jews were saved by Grace through faith in Jesus, saved from sin for obedience and righteousness just as we are saved from sin for obedience and righteousness.

They showed their faith and repentance by the sacrifice of a lamb over which they confessed their sins and then slit the throat of the Lamb, representing that they had faith that their sins were transferred to the 'Lamb of God' and forgiven. Yet the blood still needed to be taken into the Sanctuary and applied by the Priest.

Here John make clear the difference between the children of God and the children of the wicked one:

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3:3 And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

3:4 Who ever commits sin transgress also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

3:5 And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

3:6 Who ever abides in him sins not: who ever sins has not seen him, neither known him.

3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (here it says let no man deceive you on this point and what do we see, multitudes seeking to deceive on this point, so much so that you will never hear these verses preached on, but just the opposite).

3:8 He that commits sin (known, presumptuous sin) is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil (which are sin).

3:9 Who ever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remain in him: and he cannot sin (does not sin while Jesus, the seed, abides in him), because he is born of God.

3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: who ever does not do righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

They were to live a life of obedience and righteousness unto holiness just as we are. They were free to choose just as we are. It is just in the 'New Covenant' the requirements for righteous and holiness have been expanded, not recinded. For us it is not just the Ten Commandments, but the 'Living Law' the life of Jesus Christ we are to follow. As He kept all Ten Commandments, so do we. But He took it so much further. He is our example of all goodness, righteousness and holiness. Thus we have the expanded New Testament definition of sin:

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

Now how do we know what is Good? Whatever the Bible says is good, and what ever Jesus did was good, for he always did good and never sinned.

Here is another example of the expanded obedience of man:

2co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

It applies not only to our actions, but also our thoughts:

2co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;

10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

God Bless,

Dennis