Calvin vs. Arminius

[halifaxchristian]

Define his position then. Maybe I didn't understand him the first 200 times.

[Ovedya]

Sarcasm is not a good motivator.

[halifaxchristian]

I really do have to watch my mannerisms. I think I lose more people for Christ than I win. Sorry. I mean that. Please, articulate if you will. God bless.

[EricH]

My God isn't on par with Charles Manson.  Destining people to hell is a crime.  No two ways about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought we had worked through keeping this civil?? My brother, you are basically saying that if I hold to my position I am worshipping a Charles Manson like God. I think it best if I don't pursue this discussion with you. I wish you blessings

[Guest Philalitheia]

Calvinism does not state that God predestinated some people for hell.

Edited August 8, 2005 by Philalitheia

[Guest byMySpirit]

I read through the DAISY and TULIP statements at the beginning.

As is often the case, we get the answer wrong because we ask the wrong questions. Calvin was wrong. You have to delete many many verses from Scripture to uphold his views. The most common one: For God so loved the world (not just certain ones) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (can it be any clearer) believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

I'm not as familiar with Armenian theology. I'll say this about point number one. We are dead. Paul says so many times. We are dead in trespasses and sins. Our problem is not that we're dead. Our problem is that we don't know or think we are. It is only when we come to the full realization of our helplessness that we fall on the Rock and are saved by Him. It is nothing in us that saves us.

Calvinism amazes me. I can't believe it ever got past first base...

[Guest netwattie]

Not enough options here fella. Rather than have these two- which I have only discovered now, I would want something that is directly tied to the bible, rather than a point of view from people. Anyway, my theology stance would have men with the free will to choose whether or not to accept Christ or not. and if they did- then the holy spirit would enter them, for eternity, guranteeing them a place in heaven, sealing them for the day of redemption. If we genuinely receive Christ- and this is between the individual and god, there is nothing that can make us lose our salvation- not even choosing to hate god, or suicide. The holy spirit is a free gift, which is completely 100% God and 0% us.

Of course if we don't mean it when we receive christ- then we never got salvation in the first place- but this is very difficult to judge, and only god knows this.

Regardless, I have made sure I am saved through praying the sinners prayer at least twice in my life- so I know, no matter what happens, I am going to heaven. This is why I love god, not out of fear of losing my salvation, but because my salvation is secure! Christ died for all sin, leaving none unforgiveable for those who have received Christ.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of god, not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2 vs 8-9

Romans 8 vs 37-39-

"But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 10 vs 28-29

"And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand."

1 Corinthians 3 vs 14-15

"If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

Ephesians 1:13b-14:

"in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

2 Co 1:22 "who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."

2 Co 5:5 "Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee."

[Work in Progress]

I would want something that is directly tied to the bible, rather than a point of view from people.

[EricH]

Came across an interesting verse in my QT today:

And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 13:48 NASB

[Guest JAR61]

Umm..have a question.....Did you all know that Clavin murdered a man named Michael Severtus for failing to adhere to Calvins doctrine on the trinity?

Ummm.... all those guys were a bunch of well educated theologians...

Know who the greatest theologian of all times is?

Hint...J.C...

Does anyone ascribe to His teachings?