Just Wondering?

[Adstar]

Hi tsth

Read the following.

Ezekiel 34

11 "For thus says the Lord GOD: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord GOD. 16"I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."

17"And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture--and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet."

20"Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: "Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them--My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.

Now compare with the following.

Matthew 24

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 25

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'

41"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

44"Then they also will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

i see some parallels do you?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Adstar,

Do you also want to give your interpretation of the verses you provided? Can you provide me an answer to the following?

If, as the pre-tribber says, the sheep are separated from the goats - which is often used to support the pre-trib rapture - then all that are left are goats. So what does a pre-tribber say about these verses:

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-4 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Also would you say that the "great tribulation" above is the same as:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

Yes Adstar,

I most certainly do! My request would be that people would begin to look at the history of these same things within the passages of Scriptures of the prophets, literally. Instead of just a collective thought of a "whisking away" what if it is a more literal/physical occasion much like that of the sheltering of Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Lot, Rahab, etc......? What do the prophets "actually" say about the Day of the Lord? What will it actually entail?

Just some questions to ponder.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[wordsower]

Adstar,

Those prophecies refer to Israel, not the church.

Suzanne, I have found many OT references to the rapture. I had them written in the back of my bible as I come across them.

Ps. 45:14 She shall be brought to the King in robes of many colors, the virgins, her companions who follow her, shall be brought to You. With gladness and rejoicing they shall be brought; They shall enter the King's palace.

Mal. 3:17,18 "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, on the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him." Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavillion; in the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock.

Proverbs 10:25 When the whirlwind passes by, the wicked is no more, but the righteous has an everlasting foundation.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger.

[Dad Ernie]

Suzanne, I have found many OT references to the rapture. I had them written in the back of my bible as I come across them.

Ps. 45:14 She shall be brought to the King in robes of many colors, the virgins, her companions who follow her, shall be brought to You. With gladness and rejoicing they shall be brought; They shall enter the King's palace.

Mal. 3:17,18 "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, on the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him." Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavillion; in the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock.

Proverbs 10:25 When the whirlwind passes by, the wicked is no more, but the righteous has an everlasting foundation.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger.

Greetings Wordsower,

Actually none of these verses refer to the "rapture" as defined by the Bible OR current custom. They elude to the fact that God will keep His people in times of hardship or tribulation. Jesus said, that He holds His sheep in His hands and will never let them go. Or words to that effect. He is our "hiding place". He once prayed that God protect His disciples because He was leaving them. NOT that they would be taken out of the world, but that they would be protected as long as they remained in it. This applies to us as well.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Adstar]

Hello Dad Ernie

Greetings Adstar,

Do you also want to give your interpretation of the verses you provided? Can you provide me an answer to the following?

If, as the pre-tribber says, the sheep are separated from the goats - which is often used to support the pre-trib rapture - then all that are left are goats. So what does a pre-tribber say about these verses:

Well tsth asked us to give her some examples of OT rapture references, the whole point of this thread is to give examples of the rapture in the OT. Dad i am not a pre-trib rapture believer. So i really cannot answer your question. I don't know why this thread is being used as a rapture timing discussion when the request of tsth had nothing to do with rapture timing?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Adstar]

Yes Adstar,

I most certainly do! My request would be that people would begin to look at the history of these same things within the passages of Scriptures of the prophets, literally. Instead of just a collective thought of a "whisking away" what if it is a more literal/physical occasion much like that of the sheltering of Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Lot, Rahab, etc......? What do the prophets "actually" say about the Day of the Lord? What will it actually entail?

Just some questions to ponder.

In His Love,

Suzanne

A lot of destruction tsth

Ezekiel 30

1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2"Son of man, prophesy and say, "Thus says the Lord GOD:

"Wail, "Woe to the day!'

3For the day is near,

Even the day of the LORD is near;

It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

4The sword shall come upon Egypt,

And great anguish shall be in Ethiopia,

When the slain fall in Egypt,

And they take away her wealth,

And her foundations are broken down.

5"Ethiopia, Libya, Lydia, all the mingled people, Chub, and the men of the lands who are allied, shall fall with them by the sword."

6"Thus says the LORD:

"Those who uphold Egypt shall fall,

And the pride of her power shall come down.

From Migdol to Syene

Those within her shall fall by the sword,"

Says the Lord GOD.

7"They shall be desolate in the midst of the desolate countries,

And her cities shall be in the midst of the cities that are laid waste.

8Then they will know that I am the LORD,

When I have set a fire in Egypt

And all her helpers are destroyed.

9On that day messengers shall go forth from Me in ships

To make the careless Ethiopians afraid,

And great anguish shall come upon them,

As on the day of Egypt;

For indeed it is coming!"

And famine

Jeol 1

13 Gird yourselves and lament, you priests;

Wail, you who minister before the altar;

Come, lie all night in sackcloth,

You who minister to my God;

For the grain offering and the drink offering

Are withheld from the house of your God.

14Consecrate a fast,

Call a sacred assembly;

Gather the elders

And all the inhabitants of the land

Into the house of the LORD your God,

And cry out to the LORD.

15Alas for the day!

For the day of the LORD is at hand;

It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.

16Is not the food cut off before our eyes,

Joy and gladness from the house of our God?

17The seed shrivels under the clods,

Storehouses are in shambles;

Barns are broken down,

For the grain has withered.

18How the animals groan!

The herds of cattle are restless,

Because they have no pasture;

Even the flocks of sheep suffer punishment.[2]

19O LORD, to You I cry out;

For fire has devoured the open pastures,

And a flame has burned all the trees of the field.

20The beasts of the field also cry out to You,

For the water brooks are dried up,

And fire has devoured the open pastures.

Joel 2

1 Blow the trumpet in Zion,

And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!

Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;

For the day of the LORD is coming,

For it is at hand:

2A day of darkness and gloominess,

A day of clouds and thick darkness,

Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains.

A people come, great and strong,

The like of whom has never been;

Nor will there ever be any such after them,

Even for many successive generations.

3A fire devours before them,

And behind them a flame burns;

The land is like the Garden of Eden before them,

And behind them a desolate wilderness;

Surely nothing shall escape them.

4Their appearance is like the appearance of horses;

And like swift steeds, so they run.

5With a noise like chariots

Over mountaintops they leap,

Like the noise of a flaming fire that devours the stubble,

Like a strong people set in battle array.

6Before them the people writhe in pain;

All faces are drained of color.[1]

7They run like mighty men,

They climb the wall like men of war;

Every one marches in formation,

And they do not break ranks.

8They do not push one another;

Every one marches in his own column.[2]

Though they lunge between the weapons,

They are not cut down.[3]

9They run to and fro in the city,

They run on the wall;

They climb into the houses,

They enter at the windows like a thief.

10The earth quakes before them,

The heavens tremble;

The sun and moon grow dark,

And the stars diminish their brightness.

11The LORD gives voice before His army,

For His camp is very great;

For strong is the One who executes His word.

For the day of the LORD is great and very terrible;

Who can endure it?

Joel 2:31

The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

There are few more tsth

Zephaniah 1:7

Be silent in the presence of the Lord GOD; For the day of the LORD is at hand, For the LORD has prepared a sacrifice; He has invited His guests.

Zephaniah 1

14The great day of the LORD is near;

It is near and hastens quickly.

The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter;

There the mighty men shall cry out.

15That day is a day of wrath,

A day of trouble and distress,

A day of devastation and desolation,

A day of darkness and gloominess,

A day of clouds and thick darkness,

16A day of trumpet and alarm

Against the fortified cities

And against the high towers.

Malachi 4:5

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[nebula]

Yeah - this is what I understand "the day of the Lord" to be from the OT.

I don't see the "rapture" in here though.

So, I'm puzzled.

[tsth]

Yeah - this is what I understand "the day of the Lord" to be from the OT.

I don't see the "rapture" in here though.

So, I'm puzzled.

Yes, that is true Neb and it is puzzling, that is why I ask that we begin anew in prayer, and asking the Lord to reveal His Word and Will in these last days.

Adstar has posted many passages in regard to what I am speaking of. To start with, see what the prophets say about the coming of the Lord. Ask the Lord to give you understanding, just as Daniel did.

Adstar you are correct, this thread is in regard to the full understanding of the rapture, and not in regard to timing. Because until we see the rapture fully, we cannot go on to the timing, because it has no relevance.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Matthew 13:52 Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

Luke 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

(I'm not calling anyone foolish, just noting the word "all")

In His Love,

Suzanne