The book of enoch

[Blackthorn]

Here is a post I made on another forum that I thought would be good for discussion.

I have been reading the book of enoch lately. This is an apocryphal work which has visions of heaven and hell and parables of the coming messiah. It was written about 2nd century b.c. I just thought I would sum up some of enoch, his book, and biblical connection. Then the parts about the son of man which are strikingly similar to Jesus.

The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[3]

The Greek language text was known to, and quoted by nearly all, Church Fathers. A number of the Church Fathers thought it to be an inspired work, particularly Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian[citation needed], based on its quotation in Jude.

However, some later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an "apocryphal" work (Cf. Gerome, Catal. Script. Eccles. 4.). By the fourth century it was mostly excluded from Christian lists of the Biblical canon, and it was omitted from the canon by most of the Christian church (the Ethiopian Orthodox Church being an exception).

For the wikipedia on the book of enoch go here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

The bible refers to enoch in genesis as walking with god and he is considered the great grandfather of noah. In rabbinical literature it is believed that god took him and gave him the position of Great Scribe. It has even been thought he became the angel Metatron. In the Quran he is identified with Idris "the instructor" and has a similar role as in the jewish tradition.

Gen 5:22 Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters.

Gen 5:23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years.

Gen 5:24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.

The book of enoch starts with the story of the Grigori or Watchers. Which is a group of fallen angels that sleep with men and produce nephilim. They were led by samayza. All of them taught men secrets of heaven such as astrology and spread wickedness among men. Azazel taught men how to make swords and shields and wage war. This is supposed to be what brought about the great flood.

Gen 6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,

Gen 6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

Gen 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years."

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Gen 6:5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people. They soon begin to lust for the human women they see, and at the prodding of their leader Samyaza, they defect en masse to marry and live among men. The children produced by these relationships are the Nephilim, savage giants who pillage the earth and endanger humanity. Samyaza, Azazel, and the others become corrupt, and teach their human hosts to make metal weapons, cosmetics, and other necessities of civilization that had been kept secret. But the people are dying and cry to the heavens for help. God sends the Great Flood to rid the earth of the Nephilim, but sends Uriel to warn Noah so as not to eradicate the human race. The Grigori are bound "in the valleys of the Earth" until Judgment Day. (See Jude 1:6)

The Watchers story in Enoch is derived from Genesis chapter 6. Verses 1-4 describe the "Origin of the Nephilim" and mention the "Sons of God" who beget them:

For more on the grigori go here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori

The book of enoch is referenced and quoted in Jude.

Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day--

Jud 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

Jud 1:15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

The second part is where god takes enoch over the earth and into sheol. It's got some great imagery in it.

If you want to read the book of enoch it can be found here.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm

For the parts pertaining to the son of man read the second parable. I am going to copy and paste some of them to show the relation to jesus.

1. And there I saw One who had a head of days,

And His head was white like wool,

And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,

And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

2. And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and)

p. 64

why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:

This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,

With whom dwelleth righteousness,

And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden,

Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him,

And whose lot hath the pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever.

4, And this Son of Man whom thou hast seen

Shall †raise up† the kings and the mighty from their seats,

[And the strong from their thrones]

And shall loosen the reins of the strong,

And break the teeth of the sinners.

5. [And he shall put down the kings from their thrones and kingdoms]

Because they do not extol and praise Him,

Nor humbly acknowledge whence the kingdom was bestowed upon them.

6. And he shall put down the countenance of the strong,

And shall fill them with shame.

And darkness shall be their dwelling,

And worms shall be their bed,

And they shall have no hope of rising from their beds,

Because they do not extol the name of the Lord of Spirits.

The head of days refers to God in this parable as you can tell from this passage.

3. In those days I saw the Head of Days when He seated himself upon the throne of His glory,

And the books of the living were opened before Him:

And all His host which is in heaven above and His counselors stood before Him,

The

description of the head of days reminds me of a passage in revelations which is supposed to refer to jesus.

Rev 1:13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.

Rev 1:14 The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire,

Rev 1:15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.

Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.

This has lead me to think that the revelations description may have been influenced by this parable because it is a brief description of god. this is all my speculation of course.

More on the Son of man.

2. And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,

And his name before the Head of Days.

3. Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,

Before the stars of the heaven were made,

His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4. He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,

And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,

And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5. All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,

And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.

6. And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,

Before the creation of the world and for evermore.

This seems to go along with jesus' claim that he was around at the creation. I also find it interesting that he would be the light of the gentiles. Since judaism at that time only believed the chosen would be saved and it was jesus message that allowed gentiles to be saved.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Blackthorn

[Blackthorn]

Here is the second part to it.

Because the Elect One standeth before the Lord of Spirits,

And his glory is for ever and ever,

And his might unto all generations. p. 68

3. And in him dwells the spirit of wisdom,

And the spirit which gives insight,

And the spirit of understanding and of might,

And the spirit of those who have fallen asleep in righteousness.

4. And he shall judge the secret things,

And none shall be able to utter a lying word before him;

For he is the Elect One before the Lord of Spirits according to His good pleasure.

5a. For in those days the Elect One shall arise,

2. And he shall choose the righteous and holy from among them:

For the day has drawn nigh that they should be saved.

3. And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne,

And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel:

For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him.

4. And in those days shall the mountains leap like rams,

And the hills also shall skip like lambs satisfied with milk,

And the faces of ⌈all⌉ the angels in heaven shall be lighted up with joy.

5b. And the earth shall rejoice,

c. And the righteous shall dwell upon it,

d. And the elect shall walk thereon.

In other parts of the book of enoch it speaks how the Elect one will raise the elect from sheol and leave the wicked there. It seems to mirror the belief that jesus will raise the dead and give them heaven and the wicked will perish in hell.

3. And I asked the angel who went with me, saying, 'What things are these which I have seen in secret?' 4. And he said unto me: 'All these things which thou hast seen shall serve the dominion of His Anointed that he may be potent and mighty on the earth.'

9 And all these things shall be [denied and] destroyed from the surface of the earth,

When the Elect One shall appear before the face of the Lord of Spirits.'

The Elect one/ Son of man/ Anointed.

Christ is the English term for the Greek word Χριστός (Christ

[ayin jade]

The book of enoch is referenced and quoted in Jude.

A book of Enoch is referenced in Jude, but no one knows if it is the same book or not.

It has even been thought he became the angel Metatron. In the Quran he is identified with Idris "the instructor" and has a similar role as in the jewish tradition.

Men do not become angels. The quran isnt known as being an accurate source for scripture.

Read it or not as one pleases, but please keep in mind it isnt God breathed scripture and shouldnt be taken as such. Ive seen many hung up in that book and take it as His word, even when it contradicts what the bible says.

[Blackthorn]

A book of Enoch is referenced in Jude, but no one knows if it is the same book or not.

Actually yes we do. They match up almost exactly word for word.

Jude 14-15

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Enoch 1:9

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Men do not become angels.

In jewish tradition it can happen. I was merely pointing out what some judaic beliefs about enoch are.

The quran isnt known as being an accurate source for scripture.

I was merely pointing out what beliefs muslims hold about Enoch.

Read it or not as one pleases, but please keep in mind it isnt God breathed scripture and shouldnt be taken as such. Ive seen many hung up in that book and take it as His word, even when it contradicts what the bible says.

And how can you tell it's not God breathed scripture?

Alot of the church fathers believed it was inspired work. Including Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian. They argued with those who didn't. It was at one point part of the christian canon. It wasn't until the 4th century that it was decided that it should be left out. Except by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Which is one way we know that it is the same book jude references.

The church fathers even argued that jude should be removed from the bible because it referenced the book of enoch. Which is another way we know that jude does reference this book.

Where exactly does it contradict the bible?

Have you read it?

Edited December 28, 2007 by Blackthorn

[eric]

If God had meant the book of enoch to be in the canon of the bible, it would be there. You won't get many supporters of that book on this noticeboard. As far as bible study is concerned it is superfluous to reqirements. well that's IMHO.

[Blackthorn]

If God had meant the book of enoch to be in the canon of the bible, it would be there. You won't get many supporters of that book on this noticeboard. As far as bible study is concerned it is superfluous to reqirements. well that's IMHO.

What about the apocrypha? It is a part of the original canon and wasn;t removed until the reformation in the 16th century. Did god intend that? It is also part of the ethopian canon and has been for over a 1,000 years.

Whether god driven or not these decisions are made by men who are fallible and have free will.

While I personally am not sure whether enoch is inspired or not. Or if it is just an allegorical work(which some biblical books are as well). It might just be hogwash. However I find the similarities to jesus fascinating. Especially since it was written before he was born.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Blackthorn

[patricia1]

I saw this question previously posted. Trace Enochs geneology and you may find something different.

[AnotherTraveler]

Hmmm

Things that make you go hmmm.

[sweetycakes]

If God had meant the book of enoch to be in the canon of the bible, it would be there. You won't get many supporters of that book on this noticeboard. As far as bible study is concerned it is superfluous to reqirements. well that's IMHO.

Mine, too

There are many voices out there....none of them without significance. Just as there are many other good books (technical manuals, and the like).

But they are not necessary for salvation.

We have already been given that.

[AnotherTraveler]

If God had meant the book of enoch to be in the canon of the bible, it would be there. You won't get many supporters of that book on this noticeboard. As far as bible study is concerned it is superfluous to reqirements. well that's IMHO.

Mine, too

There are many voices out there....none of them without significance. Just as there are many other good books (technical manuals, and the like).

But they are not necessary for salvation.

We have already been given that.

Amen