Bush, Cheney subject to arrest?

[forrestkc]

objectively, why be so frustrated?

foregoing any opinion on the issue, it is a wonderful example of remembering the basics of our constitution.

'we, the people . . .' on the bright side, there are those in vermont who remember who is really in charge of the government.

I'm speaking as a Christian here. Biblically, we are to support our leaders, as they are appointed by God, and not try to slap them in jail on trumped up "war crimes" charges.

While I think its absurd to charge Bush or Cheney with war crimes, to take your argument to the extreme the Germans had a biblical duty to support Hitler. We have a biblical duty to stand up to injustice regardless of its form.

[AnExample]

Activists in Vermont town want Bush, Cheney subject to arrest

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

As president, Bush has visited every state except Vermont.

The town meeting, an annual exercise in which residents gather to vote on everything from fire department budgets to municipal policy, requires about 1,000 signatures to place a binding item on the agenda.

The measure asks: "Shall the Selectboard instruct the Town Attorney to draft indictments against President Bush and Vice President Cheney for crimes against our Constitution, and publish said indictment for consideration by other municipalities?"

The White House did not immediately respond to requests for comment Friday. The press office did not immediately respond to an e-mail.

Support for the measure is far from universal, even in Vermont, where the state Senate voted earlier this year to support impeaching the president. Anti-war rallies are regular occurrences here, and "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers are common.

"I would not be supportive of it," said Stephen Steidle, a member of the town's Selectboard, which oversees its government.

"It's well outside of our ability. From my perspective, the Brattleboro Selectboard needs to focus on the town and the things that need to be done here."

Daims has been circulating documents that claim the community acquires a "universal jurisdiction" to take such steps "when governments breach their highest duties."

"We have the full power to issue indictments, conduct trials, incarcerate offenders and do all other acts which Independent jurisdictions may of right do," the statement says.

Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell, a Democrat whose office has repeatedly sued the Bush administration over environmental issues, said the move was "of very dubious legality."

"I have not seen the proposal, and I've done no legal research on any of the issues," Sorrell said. "But at first blush, if this passed, they'd have really uphill sledding trying to have it be legal and enforceable."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/ver...=rss_topstories

*******************

Welcome to Brattleboro - all visitors must leave brains outside town limits.

Now you know that anyone who can avoid war and it's imprisonments, surely they can avoid incarceration.

[Guest shiloh357]

objectively, why be so frustrated?

foregoing any opinion on the issue, it is a wonderful example of remembering the basics of our constitution.

'we, the people . . .' on the bright side, there are those in vermont who remember who is really in charge of the government.

I'm speaking as a Christian here. Biblically, we are to support our leaders, as they are appointed by God, and not try to slap them in jail on trumped up "war crimes" charges.

While I think its absurd to charge Bush or Cheney with war crimes, to take your argument to the extreme the Germans had a biblical duty to support Hitler.

No the Germans had a biblical duty to oppose Hitler. The Bible does not command us to support our leaders unconditionallly. While your example is extreme, it is not biblically based. We are to support our leaders and obey the laws of the land within the parameters allowed by Scripture.

[kari21]

Drum roll......I agree Shiloh

*Kari faints*

[Fraught]

I think we are all missing the frightening point of the whole situation. We have a city in a subordinate state of the Union, trying to exercise authority over the federal government. They are out of line, even if 100% of the Vermontians wanted this, they'd be 100% wrong. They have no Jurisdiction over the federal government.

When a local government tries to exert authority over the federal government that is treasonous. If they have a problem with the President, they should cede from the union and become a sovereign nation before they can claim to have any jurisdiction over the Presidency in their territory.

This is infantile, childish, and arrogant on their part to think they have that authority. This is not dissent, this is derision, and sedition.

read the constitution. the power belongs to the states

[Guest]

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:11-13

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:9-10

read the constitution. the power belongs to the states

Confederate General Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House effectively ended the conflict and settled the issue of States' Right to Suceeed.

http://www.helium.com/tm/346353/civil-roots-clash-cultures

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The City

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:10

Built By God

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hebrews 11:16

Is Surly Coming

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come

Hebrews 13:14

To House The Faithful

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:2

And You Are Invited To Open House If You But Believe

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:14-16

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Because He First Loved Me!

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[JustinM]

I think we are all missing the frightening point of the whole situation. We have a city in a subordinate state of the Union, trying to exercise authority over the federal government. They are out of line, even if 100% of the Vermontians wanted this, they'd be 100% wrong. They have no Jurisdiction over the federal government.

When a local government tries to exert authority over the federal government that is treasonous. If they have a problem with the President, they should cede from the union and become a sovereign nation before they can claim to have any jurisdiction over the Presidency in their territory.

This is infantile, childish, and arrogant on their part to think they have that authority. This is not dissent, this is derision, and sedition.

read the constitution. the power belongs to the states

The states have power, but not in the context of my comment. They do not have the authority to charge and arrest the United States President with War Crimes. Who is the plaintiff/victim? It isn't Vermont, the President has not committed any war crimes against Vermont. The States do not have the authority to charge anyone in the federal government with high crimes. That authority belongs to the United States Congress and them alone.

I am quite familiar with the U.S. Consitution, the Air Force has an annual requirement to read the document. Even the military knows the importance of knowing the Constitution, something our Education System neglects.

[forrestkc]

No the Germans had a biblical duty to oppose Hitler. The Bible does not command us to support our leaders unconditionallly. While your example is extreme, it is not biblically based. We are to support our leaders and obey the laws of the land within the parameters allowed by Scripture.

You basically just said the same thing I did. If you believe a leader to be unjust, then you don't have to support them.

[Guest shiloh357]

No the Germans had a biblical duty to oppose Hitler. The Bible does not command us to support our leaders unconditionallly. While your example is extreme, it is not biblically based. We are to support our leaders and obey the laws of the land within the parameters allowed by Scripture.

You basically just said the same thing I did. If you believe a leader to be unjust, then you don't have to support them.

No, we are not exactly saying the same thing. You were trying to draw a bogus comparison between suporting Bush and supporting Hitler. Not only is there absolutely no reasonable means of comparing support for Hitler's madness as being analogous to support of Bush.

Futhermore my point had nothing to do with simply seeing the actions of a leader as "unjust." That can be a very relative term. Many people see God as "unjust." That does not make Him so.

The point I am making is that we are expected by God to pray for our leaders and to be good citizens with respect to the laws of the Land and we are to afford our leaders our support until we are forced to abandon Scripture. The example I gave earlier in this thread was that if we are commnaded to begin procreating with multiple partners, then obviously we would not obey such a commnand as Christians.

Supporting our leaders not mean agreeing with every one of their decisions. We can support and pray for our leaders even if we don't agree with everyone of their decisions and we certainly don't need to run around participating in silly campaigns like trying to get the President arrested. That is just nonsense.

[papasangel]

Activists in Vermont town want Bush, Cheney subject to arrest

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

As president, Bush has visited every state except Vermont.

The town meeting, an annual exercise in which residents gather to vote on everything from fire department budgets to municipal policy, requires about 1,000 signatures to place a binding item on the agenda.

The measure asks: "Shall the Selectboard instruct the Town Attorney to draft indictments against President Bush and Vice President Cheney for crimes against our Constitution, and publish said indictment for consideration by other municipalities?"

The White House did not immediately respond to requests for comment Friday. The press office did not immediately respond to an e-mail.

Support for the measure is far from universal, even in Vermont, where the state Senate voted earlier this year to support impeaching the president. Anti-war rallies are regular occurrences here, and "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers are common.

"I would not be supportive of it," said Stephen Steidle, a member of the town's Selectboard, which oversees its government.

"It's well outside of our ability. From my perspective, the Brattleboro Selectboard needs to focus on the town and the things that need to be done here."

Daims has been circulating documents that claim the community acquires a "universal jurisdiction" to take such steps "when governments breach their highest duties."

"We have the full power to issue indictments, conduct trials, incarcerate offenders and do all other acts which Independent jurisdictions may of right do," the statement says.

Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell, a Democrat whose office has repeatedly sued the Bush administration over environmental issues, said the move was "of very dubious legality."

"I have not seen the proposal, and I've done no legal research on any of the issues," Sorrell said. "But at first blush, if this passed, they'd have really uphill sledding trying to have it be legal and enforceable."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/ver...=rss_topstories

*******************

Welcome to Brattleboro - all visitors must leave brains outside town limits.

ahem I know this may sound strong but these IDIOTS need to check their own lives at the door. How many of them make the right decisions all the time? They are just looking for a scapegoat. I do not agree with everything our president has done but he IS the president and if they cannot honor the man they should at least honor the office of the presidency.