Please tell me... When is the Sabbath?

[Richard_yaash]

I think you are being truthful when you say that a lot of people don't keep the Sabbath because the world isn't set up for it.

I'm not inviting you to a debate. Just making a friendly comment.

Hi Jemdude,

IMO: While that may be part of it, in reality it is only a symptom of a much greater sickness/problem.

I know you are not inviting me to debate, besides, I am not very good at it these days anyway. Perhaps why I have been given a complimentary membership to the "Grumpy Old Men's Club". I do however appreciate your friendly comment.

I see in you someone upon the path in life. Still searching, still learning, but nevertheless, doing these things and possessing the beginnings of wisdom. Someone who in time, may acquire much knowledge. You have the beginnings of a good start upon the path, however, do not forget understanding, for without it, knowledge is as nothing and wisdom shall become elusive. Continue in your studies achi, much is yet to be revealed. Be careful and ever watchful that no bitter root gains a hold or weighs upon you.

May you and yours be richly blessed.

[Richard_yaash]

Faith alone cannot save, neither can works alone. My point is you must have BOTH. One is useless without the other.

Well said. However, I am left with this feeling of deja vu, as though I have heard/read that before <grin>.

[Richard_yaash]

Please answer this question in response to your assertion:

If the term "keep my commandments" always means the 10 commandments, then why is this a new commandment? Jn 15:10-12 + Jn 13:34.

Hi Vickilynn,

Is it really a "new" commandment?

If we look at Luke 10, even the lawyer knew to love one another or love thy neighbor as thyself. In your opinion, why is it "new"? What is different about it that would cause it to be "new"?

[Richard_yaash]

First of all, Sunday observance not being in the entire Bible is NOT a "straw man" but is the truth.

I do not understand how a person can claim that the NT mentions nothing about the Sabbath (which is not true) when a Sunday commandment is not found in the entire Bible?

Perhaps there is a precedence for meeting together upon the first day though. Said precedence however, does not supersede shabat. Perhaps it is simply something that has become lost and/or misunderstood. If such said precedence does occur, is it not lawful to enjoy/observe shabat and also 'meet together/take up a collection' upon the first day?

Nowhere in *all* of the "Bible" is meeting together upon the first day forbidden or unclean. We must all be careful. Many who enjoy shabat are pushed by others, said 'pushing' can often result in a legalistic POV or reaction. Thus, the possible beginnings of a bitter root. Further, we end up with viewpoints that are in stark contrast with one another much of the time which may leave both/all parties to some degree in error.

There is nothing inherently wrong with meeting together upon the first day. It just does not supersede shabat. There is no reason why a person can not enjoy both.

[Pilgrim7]

The Problem is called sin, which is what the breaking of God's commandments is, sin, transgression of His Holy Law. You see the carnal heart is not subject to the law of God which is quite plainly demonstrated here.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh (sinful flesh of man), God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (that is the Holy Spirit who lead into things holy, such a walking after God's commandments)

8:5 For they that are after the flesh (who walk in obedience to the flesh, in disobedience to God) do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (which are holy)

8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (here Paul sums us the the whole problem, it is the flesh, carnality, the sinful nature which is not subject to, thus will not subject itself to the Righteous and Holy Law of God and thus can not please Him for as He said himself keeping the Sabbath is one of the things that pleases Him)

8:8 So then those that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Try as you may to separate the Holy Law of God from the service of God, it cannot be done. Here Paul makes it so plain that it is impossible to miss. The Holy Spirit of God dwelling in the heart writes the Law of God in the heart in the New Covenant experience, thus the Spiritual man loves the Law of God, the 'carnal man' hates the law of God.

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

7:14 For we know (don't we) that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (His flesh, without the Spirit)

It would seem that Paul understood what he was teaching, and knew the difference between the flesh and the spirit. He understood the place of the law, as the identifier of sin, which is to be repented of, overcome in the life of the believer as he follows on in holiness led by the Spirit of holiness.

Read all of what Paul says about the law of God, and not just the isolated, out of context, pre-programed verses given from the pulpit in order to justify disobedience to the Law of God with the assurance of 'thou shalt not surely die'. but as the Scriptures plainly state, the 'wages of sin are still death.

God bless,

Dennis

[Vickilynn]

Please answer this question in response to your assertion:

If the term "keep my commandments" always means the 10 commandments, then why is this a new commandment? Jn 15:10-12 + Jn 13:34.

Hi Vickilynn,

Is it really a "new" commandment?

If we look at Luke 10, even the lawyer knew to love one another or love thy neighbor as thyself. In your opinion, why is it "new"? What is different about it that would cause it to be "new"?

Shalom Richard,

Because JESUS Himself called it "new." And the love He speaks of is only found in HIM, not in our own works. We are to love others AS JESUS LOVED US. His teachings are the commandments He was speaking about, not the 10 commandments.

John 13:34

34 A new commandment[ I give to you,that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

John 15 12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

You knew the reason this was posted was in regards to JemDude's assertions that Jesus was speaking of the 10 commandments. See above.

I will keep this On Topic pertaining to the Sabbath discussion.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

This is an excellent article and puts the whole issue of Sabbath linked to salvation to REST. This is an excerpt from a whole series on the Sabbath and I highly recommend it.

This excerpt deals with the salvation non-issue and false and dangerous position of obligation:

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/.../afterword.html

Christians and Shabbat -

Celebration not Obligation...

Mark 2:27 HNT

Shabbat was made for man, and not man for Shabbat.

- Jesus

Jesus is our Sabbath Rest

Since the Sabbath was part of the terms of the covenant given to Israel on Mt. Sinai (i.e., it was part of the sefer habrit given to Moses, and ratified by the 70 elders of Israel through the shedding of the sacrificial blood of animals), Christians are not

[Guest Biblicist]

My very dear friend just told me that "after researching the subject" they, she and her husband, decided to go with the Sabbath as Saturday and they cease all work from Friday evening through Saturday evening. They are not Jewish nor do they attend a Jewish church, but they do attend a church that holds their worship services on Saturday in accordance to this belief.

I think it's a very bold move on their part!

I would like to know though, Vickilynn, what does the author of the article you posted mean when he states...

This is a "weaker brother" issue.

[Vickilynn]

My very dear friend just told me that "after researching the subject" they, she and her husband, decided to go with the Sabbath as Saturday and they cease all work from Friday evening through Saturday evening. They are not Jewish nor do they attend a Jewish church, but they do attend a church that holds their worship services on Saturday in accordance to this belief.

I think it's a very bold move on their part!

I would like to know though, Vickilynn, what does the author of the article you posted mean when he states...

This is a "weaker brother" issue.

Shalom Bib,

I believe, from reading his other material on that site that he is referring to Romans 14 in this is an area of convictions, not of Biblical command. I do not believe the author is saying the other brother is weaker, but that we should allow grace to our brother who does NOT observe the day. The Bible calls the other brother the "weaker" brother, and I believe the author is simply referring to that passage of Scripture, not call people who hold different views on the Sabbath as being weak. I say that because of the whole overall message I posted above, the author does NOT consider it a Biblical mandate to observe the Sabbath. He is encouraging us to be sensitive to those who may be offended by our observance of it.

This verse of Scripture is ALL about grace in differing convictions such as days and food:

Romans 14

1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.2) One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

[Guest Biblicist]

My very dear friend just told me that "after researching the subject" they, she and her husband, decided to go with the Sabbath as Saturday and they cease all work from Friday evening through Saturday evening. They are not Jewish nor do they attend a Jewish church, but they do attend a church that holds their worship services on Saturday in accordance to this belief.

I think it's a very bold move on their part!

I would like to know though, Vickilynn, what does the author of the article you posted mean when he states...

This is a "weaker brother" issue.

Shalom Bib,

I believe, from reading his other material on that site that he is referring to Romans 14 in this is an area of convictions, not of Biblical command. I do not believe the author is saying the other brother is weaker, but that we should allow grace to our brother who does NOT observe the day. The Bible calls the other brother the "weaker" brother, and I believe the author is simply referring to that passage of Scripture, not call people who hold different views on the Sabbath as being weak. I say that because of the whole overall message I posted above, the author does NOT consider it a Biblical mandate to observe the Sabbath. He is encouraging us to be sensitive to those who may be offended by our observance of it.

This verse of Scripture is ALL about grace in differing convictions such as days and food:

Romans 14

1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.2) One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

That's what I was hoping he meant. That their relationship with the Saviour is the most important thing and the Holy Spirit will convict when the time is right about other things, that are NOT commands.