Please tell me... When is the Sabbath?

[Vickilynn]

My very dear friend just told me that "after researching the subject" they, she and her husband, decided to go with the Sabbath as Saturday and they cease all work from Friday evening through Saturday evening. They are not Jewish nor do they attend a Jewish church, but they do attend a church that holds their worship services on Saturday in accordance to this belief.

I think it's a very bold move on their part!

I would like to know though, Vickilynn, what does the author of the article you posted mean when he states...

This is a "weaker brother" issue.

Shalom Bib,

I believe, from reading his other material on that site that he is referring to Romans 14 in this is an area of convictions, not of Biblical command. I do not believe the author is saying the other brother is weaker, but that we should allow grace to our brother who does NOT observe the day. The Bible calls the other brother the "weaker" brother, and I believe the author is simply referring to that passage of Scripture, not call people who hold different views on the Sabbath as being weak. I say that because of the whole overall message I posted above, the author does NOT consider it a Biblical mandate to observe the Sabbath. He is encouraging us to be sensitive to those who may be offended by our observance of it.

This verse of Scripture is ALL about grace in differing convictions such as days and food:

Romans 14

1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.2) One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

That's what I was hoping he meant. That their relationship with the Saviour is the most important thing and the Holy Spirit will convict when the time is right about other things, that are NOT commands.

Shalom Bib,

EXACTLY! Amen!

[Pilgrim7]

The Holy Spirit convicts us when we read the Scriptures, the word of God, which is His sword. This is what He uses the word to do, convict us of sin, righteousness and the Judgment which condemns sin and the unrepentant sinners who resist His conviction of sin and harden their heart in disobedience.

No the believer doesn't need to be commanded, for he has the Laws of God written in His heart, he loves to do God's will and searches the Scriptures as for 'hidden treasure' so that he can please his God. Thus he is tender to the 'still small voice' of the Spirit of God. He doesn't argue and look for ways to avoid doing the clear will of God and forsaking every sin. He has been saved 'from sin', he is 'dead to sin', has been 'freed from sin' and 'hates sin with a holy hatred' for it is what crucified His Lord.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Vickilynn]

I would like to provide articles to refute yours, but I've been informed that I'm not allowed to do so. Since one side is allowed to use articles and another is not, I'll have to remove myself from the debate.

Shalom JemDude,

Sorry, but SDA doctrine is not allowed. If you'll read the TOS of these boards, it says it quite plainly.

Why do you have to post SDA? Do you not have anything else to share, maybe from the Bible?

[Ddavid from NC]

SDA... Seventh Day Adventist?

[Vickilynn]

SDA... Seventh Day Adventist?

Shalom David,

Yes.

[Richard_yaash]

The Problem is called sin... <snip>

Dennis, I almost replied to you last night. However, I must say that I enjoy your posts, thank you.

[Richard_yaash]

Jesus is our Sabbath Rest

Direct support for this?

The Lord Jesus is our Sabbath rest (Heb 4:9)

Hmmm. I respectfully disagree that Hebrews 4:9 and surrounding context support this.

So why observe Shabbat?

So why bother with Shabbat? Why should we learn about this special day that the LORD appointed for His people through the Torah of Moses?

Vickilynn, you seem to be quoting this as though it is perhaps authoritive. If you are, would you please clarify how this fits within what I am understanding you believe with regard to shabat. Perhaps I have misunderstood your belief(s).

8. Shabbat is a delight

[Richard_yaash]

I have mentioned within this thread that there is nothing wrong with meeting on another day in and of itself. You may have missed it due to the length of this thread. (Even the Adventists will sometimes have prayer breakfast on Sunday and Wednesday prayer meetings. I'm sure the Messianic Jews might have other activities during the week as well). I am saying that one cannot take another day and substitute it for the Sabbath. Also, many people that keep Sunday treat the Sabbath as a regular working day and are therefore, breaking the Sabbath. Many Christians who profess to believe in keeping the 10 commandments believe they are fulfilling the 4th commandment by having their main worship services and abstaining from work on Sundays, but that is incorrect. Again, not inviting a debate, but just explaining myself.

Hi Jemdude,

The reason I felt a need to interject, was that your statement was a little... perhaps too 'hardline', to the point of verging upon being... let's say a 'problem' for lack of a better way to put it right now. And again, it was out of sincere love achi. I am curious, if I may ask, how long have you been enjoying shabat? It is none of my business and you need not answer. Also, while again it is none of my business, I keep reading regarding SDA and you. I am inquiring as to whether these reports are true and you need not answer, for I do respect one's privacy.

If these reports are true, I would encourage you to learn what you may from them. However, also be careful and study for yourself. I have in the past read some SDA 'explanation/exegesis' of certain verses/phrases. While some have had some merit, there have been some which as I learned enough hebrew to read and understand these things for myself, that I have a little trouble with. This however I have found to be true within many/most/all 'denominations' so please do not feel that I am criticizing SDA's alone.

As I am too lazy to peruse the TOS right now, I will admit that I do not know the limits/allowances/etc. with regard to posting websites and other material. IMO, for whatever it may or may not be worth: I would rather read someone's own writings and work than to be given endless websites to read. With a quick Google search, one may turn up thousands of sites that say whatever it is that their itching ears wish to hear. The www is a very vast sea, however it is also very shallow. And no, I am not referring to anyone in particular, this is a general and blanket statement which has been my opinion for many many years now.

Now, while I do not agree with Vickilynn, I do not fully agree with you either. I am not picking upon you nor criticizing you. I see within you a true desire to find and live in the manner that YHVH desires of us. I see a true desire to 'uphold the Law' within you. I have seen an earnesty within you. I have seen a very good side of you which I commend. However, I also see within you the 'troubles' that afflict many as they begin to observe shabat. Perhaps you have caught a little (or a lot) of 'flack' from those within your former church. Perhaps you have lost dear friends because of it. The reasons are many and deep.

Yes, many people treat the first day as shabat, many work upon the shabat. Some do out of pure naivet

[Richard_yaash]

Please answer this question in response to your assertion:

If the term "keep my commandments" always means the 10 commandments, then why is this a new commandment? Jn 15:10-12 + Jn 13:34.

Is it really a "new" commandment?

If we look at Luke 10, even the lawyer knew to love one another or love thy neighbor as thyself. In your opinion, why is it "new"? What is different about it that would cause it to be "new"?

Because JESUS Himself called it "new." And the love He speaks of is only found in HIM, not in our own works. We are to love others AS JESUS LOVED US. His teachings are the commandments He was speaking about, not the 10 commandments.

John 13:34

34 A new commandment[ I give to you,that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

John 15 12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

You knew the reason this was posted was in regards to JemDude's assertions that Jesus was speaking of the 10 commandments. See above.

I will keep this On Topic pertaining to the Sabbath discussion.

But Vickilynn, you introduced this. Now I am asking you about it. In most of your replies to me, you seem to feel a need to bring Jemdude's name into it. Can you not simply speak directly unto me without dragging Jemdude into it? If I want to speak with Jemdude or about Jemdude, I will do so directly with Jemdude. If I would like to speak with you regarding something you have brought forth or introduced to the thread/discussion (particularly to prove your point) can you not simply directly respond without the need to bring others into it? What I mean is, you have introduced this to make a point within the thread, I am questioning and hoping to understand the validity of your point.

Now, perhaps you would be so kind: Was it really a "new" commandment?

As you stated "because 'Jesus' himself called it new". However it was not really new, it was an existing command, in fact, it is one of the 613 mitzot. One that does in fact apply unto everyone equally, unlike some of the 613. It was "new" in that it was simply upon a deeper level. No different than the old 'letter of the law' v. 'spirit of the Law'. No different than the "newness" of the Law being written upon one's heart rather than upon tablets of stone. However, I must admit that I have met some in which I am not sure there was much difference between heart and stone. However that is neither here nor there.

Now, you have stated that his (Jesus') teachings are the 'commandments' that he was speaking about. If I may ask, in your opinion which of 'Jesus" teachings are commandments? Please, do not simply say "All of them" but list a few for me in so that I may better understand your point(s) in this. Perhaps I should rephrase the question slightly: What are the commands/commandments that 'Jesus' taught?

Since you are asking the question as to whether these always refer to the decalogue, and it is clear that it refers to more than simply the decalogue itself. Perhaps you would be so kind as to share with us exactly what 'commands/commandments' or even 'precepts/statutes' unto which 'Jesus' was referring. Please, be somewhat specific (IOW more than simply saying "his teachings") in so that I might better understand. Please list some of Jesus' teachings that are 'commands/commandments'.

In a previous response to you, I had asked several questions along this line in the hope that we might get to this point which perhaps may help some, inclusive of myself, to better understand these 'commands/commandments' and which are to be observed/valid/upheld.

[Richard_yaash]

<snip> ...then there is nothing I can do.

Forgive me here, however that is not entirely true.

<snip> ...then there cannot be a fair debate.

Dare I ask: What does it mean unto you to 'overcome adversity'? Can it be done?

<smile>