kat8585 Posted March 16, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deut31:12 Posted March 17, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2008 deut31:12 According to your understanding, even if someone was married and divorced 5 times they are still bound by the law to each other until they die. So, if I leave my spouse, for fornication, neglect, and/or abuse, and marry another I am still bound by law to them if they are still alive according to your understanding. No, you just arent paying any real attention to the thread and what is being said. I DONT believe that bound by law is absolute. I believe it is modified by Jesus exception. I dont believe Jesus MEANT for his exception to be taken as absolute as some of you are taking it either. THAT is the point...there ARE things that modify 'BOUND BY LAW'..and there ARE things that modify 'except for forncation'....but apparently its too complex a concept for some here to figure out. You have the first two right, but you are adding the third by your own understanding without and scriptural proof. Jesus uses the word "except" and applies it to "fornication" and nothing else. You are adding what you think to the what Jesus said. The way it was intended is that we are bound to each other by law until death, but if my spouse is cheating on me then I am lawfully able to divorce them and remarry another. Outside of this, if we divorce for any other reason neither of of are lawfully able to remarry others or we commit adultery. NO poster....that is YOUR understanding of the way it is meant. Youre going to have to accept the fact that you are giving an interpretation that YOU wish to believe. NONE of us here was there to know factually what was in the mind of Jesus or Paul at that time. We INTERPRET what WE believe to be the relevant details to determine what WE believe is being said....no more, no less. YOUR understanding is what you present based on what YOU believe is relevant detail as is MY understanding doing precisely the same. The difference between us is that *I* dont stop at 'except for fornication' and somehow think I have the WHOLE picture while apparently you do. That is your whole problem in your understanding. You are not stopping at fornication because you are adding to what Jesus said. Paul and Jesus' judgments don't cancel each other out. Put in proper perspective they both exist together. This is why Jesus used the word "Except". It is the only exception we have to remarry outside of the death of my spouse. Other than that we are bound until death. Erroneous. Jesus NEVER in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM EVER meant to say ...."if your slimeball husband SLIPS and cheats you can divorce and remarry....but if he ONLY hacks off your arms and legs you ARE FOREVER bound to him " ANY person that takes our Lords words to MEAN that does not KNOW Jesus Christ or His personality and has COMPLETELY misunderstood His exception !! You and I are finished here unless you have some NEW data to present...I dont intend on having to REPEAT myself 2000 times for you because you keep saying the same things over and again. Any repetition after this point will result in cut and paste responses on my part....kwim ? Things do happen in marriage no matter how morbid. Nobody is saying that anybody has to stay with anybody that is abusive, but we do have to live by and accept our judgments by what Jesus did tell us and not by what we think he said or meant. When you do that you are adding to the words of Christ. Anybody can get divorced for any reason they choose, but scripture tells us that they only way anybody can get remarried is if the divorce for the reason of fornication like Jesus says. and again...*IF* you folks insist that YOUR pet passage is absolute, then *I* insist that 'bound by law until DEATH' is absolute meaning NO one can remarry until the DEATH of the husband. Jesus exception expressly GIVE PERMISSION to remarry after divorce...that is FACT. It is something we have gleaned from His words...it is ASSUMED based on the way He words his exception. The word "exception" was used to show that the only lawful way to be remarried to another is if I put away my spouse for fornication and that is it. There is nothing there that SAYS 'YOU CAN REmarry after divorce"...not a single word. 'Bound by LAW until DEATH" could very well mean that no, you cannot marry until the DEATH of your spouse. Jesus showing that ADULTERY might not be committed if we divorce for fornication does NOT necessarily mean 'you can REmarry after this divorce and not be sinning otherwise" The exception ONLY shows that ADULTERY wouldnt be committed...it does NOT show that it is 'lawful to actually get remarried after divorce. I challenge you to prove me wrong in this poster. No more nonsense, prove the statement false with CLEAR scripture. It is nonsense to you because you don't want to accept it. Anybody can do that. I have stuck with scripture that you keep adding to. Through scripture Jesus shows us that if we divorce and get remarried we are in adultery if that divorce was not for the cause of fornication. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. - Matthew 5:32 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. - Mark 10:11-12 These scriptures speak for themselves. Even the one listed here in mark doesn't even mention about committing fornication, so if we went by just that one then anybody who ever gets divorced and remarries is in adultery, but Jesus did say that if the divorce is because your spouse cheated on you then you lawfully can remarry. We don't have to remarry and it is not commanded to remarry. ========================================== For you lurkers here, please dont allow this response to this particular poster confuse you. I believe that BOTH statements, Bound by law and except for fornication....BOTH are modified by other relevant scriptures. Im basically just trying to show this poster how absurd their views are and what a monster they have to believe Jesus Christ is to believe that error. Again, that is you problem. There are no scriptures in the New Testament that modifies Jesus' judgment. I don't believe that Jesus was in error, but with your additions to what Jesus was saying is putting it in error. We can't use the Old Testament to modify what Jesus said because in the gospels Jesus took away those reasons for lawful remarriage by stating that the only way remarriage is allowed is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. Jesus was not a legalist who would have allowed for divorce and remarriage for ADULTERY and then denied the same for a woman whos animal brutally raped and dismembered her in whatever fashion (its best to just leave any sickening details that Ive heard about out of this discussion, quite frankly, but if you want to look at what some husbands do to their wives, check on stories in countries like India...very horrific things happening there to young women) http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...8-6-2006_pg12_6 Its a VERY sick world out there folks... Again, this is your understanding trying to superceed Jesus' judgment. Nobody said anybody had to stay in a bad marriage. Jesus just said that the only way remarriage could happen is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. There is only one exception in the New Testament for lawful remarriage. By this posters view Jesus would GLADLY embrace this woman who divorced her husband for ONE SLIP where he cheated, then Christ would send to hell and torment a woman who's husband and beaten and raped her and her children ....even cut off her nose with a pair of scissors...if she divorced and then by the grace of God somehow found a godly christian man to marry her some day in the future. This disgusting view of who our Lord is just boggles the mind...especially when its based on a person REFUSING to harmonize ALL of Gods word in the matter. It is always interesting to see the extreme examples us to prove a point. Again, your judgment and view on this subject is what you think it should be and applying that to the mind of Christ where scripture doesn't. You are refusing to accept the phrase that Jesus said, "Except fornication" and add what you think that should have been saying. That phrase rules everything else out or it too would have been added. If it is in New Testament that we can remarry for any other reason outside of this then please give me a scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeCajunboy Posted March 17, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 113 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/28/1952 Share Posted March 17, 2008 The situations are hypothetical but common to our times. 1. What if a relationship that began as adultery results in divorces for one or both parties, and they decide to marry because they are "in love"? Will God bless the marriage that had an illegit start? 2. What if casual sex results in a pregnancy and the couple decide to marry? Will God bless the marriage that had an illegit start? I believe if the party that was married for some time and made every effort to amend the marriage and saught coucelling as more initiative to mend the marriage, and the marriage still suffers and causes the couple to divorce, my personal belief is " as long as the persons involved repent and are truly sorry for the sins they committed we are told that God forgives all sins that are repented except for the sins of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and I take God for HIS word. The same will apply for the infant, as God would not punish HIS childen for the sake of their parents. Again, this is my personal belief. And if the Catholic Church does not allow their divorces' not to receive the Host of Jesus....SHAME ON THEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deut31:12 Posted March 17, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2008 I'm done here. I have repeatedly proven that We are bound to our spouses by law until death, but if our marriage does happen to end up in a divorce, Jesus states that the only way that we can lawfully remarry is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. When Jesus said "except for fornication" he left that as the only means that we can lawfully remarry if divorced. By saying that we are legal to remarry if our divorce was because of any other immoral atrocities is adding to what Jesus said. Jesus is not a monster in this judgment. When we try to add our own understanding to his judgments then we can make his exact judgments monsterous. Unless you can prove by scripture anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus said that the exception is anything more than fornication then there is nothing else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted March 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2008 We have probably said everything that needs to be said here. Let's give it a rest for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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