Brood of Vipers

[tsth]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Yes I have studied them. the pharisee's understanding of God's requirements was never in question. It was their misunderstanding of its role in our lives that led them astray. What is it you are trying to make a case for? That most people are like the pharisees?

Dear EricH,

Could you possibly explain your understanding of 16-21, then?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Yes I have studied them. the pharisee's understanding of God's requirements was never in question. It was their misunderstanding of its role in our lives that led them astray. What is it you are trying to make a case for? That most people are like the pharisees?

Dear EricH,

Could you possibly explain your understanding of 16-21, then?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Well first I would like you to tell me the point you are trying to make (as I requested above). Then I can better interact with you

[tsth]

The point I am trying to make is the comparison of Scripture, with regard to "brood of vipers", and discussing what it is talking about.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest man]

They rely on empty arguments and speak lies; they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. 5 They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider's web. Whoever eats their eggs will die, and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.

It's interesting, and I don't think it's much different for today.

In His Love,

Suzanne

It's not.

The only thing that's changed is the technology.

[psalmone]

I think Is.59 is very significant and relevant to these times, and yes, it describes the pharisees and the like, and the fruit of those works (difficult conditions). I saw the other day of how the pharisees were likened to serpents and how satan is described as such in Genesis and Revelation. Significantly though, how the Lord refers to their base as the "synagogue of satan" , implying that their nature wasn't what it should have been. We are told in other parts of how they devour widows households, and I believe the same are those who "creep into households and captivate gullible women laden with sins". It was probably that type of situation when they presented Jesus with the women caught in adultery. Jesus was more indignant with the "creeps" than with the sinful woman. I believe it's because Jesus knew their nature, and their practices , and that they'd settled for a merciless carry-on of dead works which added nothing spiritually to the needs of the people, in the name of godliness.

[Pilgrim7]

Suzanne,

Today, every body likes to pick on the Pharisees as though they were some sort of 'special evil creatures'. They were just unconverted 'church leaders', who, lacking the 'new heart' sought to serve God out of the 'carnal heart' and thus we see the results of such. We have seen the same thing throughout history. Churches, having left the 'living God', seeking to rule their fellow man all the while leading them further 'into the pit'.

It starts by departing from the 'whole word of God' and leads to the 'teaching of the commandments of man'. Soon the 'commandments of man' are raised above the 'commandments of God'. Once the 'Commandments of man' are in place, then all the force of the 'religious man' is employed to bring about compliance. Thus the 'commandments of man' take pre-eminence over the 'commandments of God'.

Now it is seen as virtue to question and cavil at the 'commandments of God', yet heresy to dare question the 'commandments of men', which are merely the teachings of 'unconverted church leaders'. Such had happened to the 'Jewish church' in Jesus day, such happened to the church after Jesus died, with millions being burned at the stake for holding to the 'Word of God', and such has happened today.

You see, real religion is about following God, and not man, about real 'living faith' which produces a 'new creation', versus 'dead belief' which produces 'mega-churches' of 'lukewarm professors' destitute of the 'power of God' to produce 'Spiritual, holy creations'.

You see the truth is still the truth, 'Many are called, but few are chosen, many seek to enter in, but few really do, wide is the gate that leads to 'destruction', but narrow is the way that leads to life. No amount of hermeneutics, no amount of the wisdom of man, now amount of 'clever twisting and spinning' from the Pulpit will change that, As Jesus said:

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find (living) faith on the earth? (the faith which produces 'new creatures in Christ')

Not much crying today, but a whole lot of 'smug presumption' that God wouldn't dare cast off those who 'draw near to Him with thier lips while there hearts are far from Him' in disobedience and disbelief in the 'whole word of God'.

The worst heresy today is to question 'church leaders'.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Guest shiloh357]

One thing that needs to be borne out about the Pharisees is that they were not a monolith. In the first century there were nine orders of Pharisees, and not all of them were hypocrites. There were 10's thousands of them and even Jesus, who was a Rabbi, would have belonged to one of the orders of the Pharisees, Himself. Jesus was a Rabbi and would have belonged to one of those Pharisaic orders because ONLY the Pharisees were allowed to teach from the Torah in the Synagogue. Jesus would not have been allowed to teach in the Synagogue or at the temple, nor would have he had disciples if he had not been of one of the Pharisaic orders.

Jesus had both His supporters and detractors among them, and when Jesus is confronting them, He was confronting those were His enemies. It is unfair to simply make broad, sweeping judgments about "the Pharisees" without running headlong into Jesus' membership of that group. Jesus' remarks were not aimed at all Pharisees, much less at the Jewish people as a whole.

I think most of the movies made about Jesus in the 20th century, by people who had a very rudimentary understanding of 1st century culture is to blame for the way the Pharisees are understood. The only thing many Christians know about the Jews is what they think they know about the Pharisees, much of which is inaccurate.

Jesus did not criticize the Pharisees for their traditions. Jesus never spoke against their traditions or customs. What Jesus criticized was the way SOME of the Pharisees enageed in hypocrisy with respect to how they enforced those traditions, the way SOME of them perverted their traditions into an ostentatious display AND the way SOME of them had elevated the traditions above the Word of God, itself. The traditions, in and of themselves, were not the problem; the way they were employed by certain members of the Pharisees, is where the problem existed.

[woden]

The point I am trying to make is the comparison of Scripture, with regard to "brood of vipers", and discussing what it is talking about.

In His Love,

Suzanne

So in a modern context, setting aside the ancient one for now, who would be the brood of vipers today or don't they exist in today multi-faith society?

Edited February 7, 2008 by woden

[terter]

Looked at some research on viper eggs, etc. earlier. Here's a couple of urls: http://www.christadelphianbooks.org/agora/...less/u-v02.html and http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2359.htm

that might interest you.

[Guest man]

So in a modern context, setting aside the ancient one for now, who would be the brood of vipers today or don't they exist in today multi-faith society?

Take a look at your TV on sunday morning.