Financial matters

[Russell]

This question has been on my mind of late and I am seeking input from you brothers and sisters.

It relates to protecting one's assets (family home) from potential litigation. We live in a sue-happy society and if by chance we fall short in our obligations to others even by ignorance and there is an accident we may be called upon to pay the price.

Now if you are in business ...you have public liability insurance that is supposed to cover such events...however if by chance you did something against the law or failed to disclose all the facts to the insurance company...again in ignorance...you may well find yourself uninsured.

Now to cover this situation I have recently come across a guy...qualified accountant...financial advisor (registered) ...come entrepreneur...who is saying that to protect oneself you should in fact become penniless ...that is hide your assets....all legally of course. He is having a seminar and will charge an exorbitant fee to divulge such information...cheaper to buy a book i believe.

However how should one look at this situation...i mean should we trust in God that He will protect or should we in fact do as this man suggests...if in fact it is all legal.

Also have any of you got ideas where to find such information at a fraction of the cost...his cost being $1800 ...that is not a misprint $1,800-00...for a two day seminar covering a number of topics...maybe i should change my business and hold a two day seminar once a year and take the rest of the year off :hug:

Blessings

Edited April 12, 2004 by Russell

[serotta]

Russell said:

Now if you are in business ...you have public liability insurance that is supposed to cover such events...however if by chance you did something against the law or failed to disclose all the facts to the insurance company...again in ignorance...you may well find yourself uninsured.

There are all types of insurance, personal liability, errors and omissions, etc. It would appear to me that this person is preying upon peoples fears for his own personal gain. I would speak to your insurance professional or your attorney, people that you should already have a relationship with and some trust. To "become penniless" by hiding your assets, at an initial cost of $18,000 seems a bit absurd to me.

[Russell]

To "become penniless" by hiding your assets, at an initial cost of $18,000 seems a bit absurd to me.

Umm...you are right...should be $1,800-00

Just edited it

[barracuda]

I would imagine that trusting in God in all things is the way to go. Besides, if you are more concerned about hiding money, then we are in having integrity and putting our faith in God then what would that say about us.

And if someone wanted to sue me then 9 times out of 10 we should be able to settle things out of court.

And last time I checked you can't take any of it with you, so if someone is that desperate to screw you then they are going to do it no matter what anyway.

But abiding in God's love, and seeking His will for our lives should cover any situation such as you are hypothesizing.

And I would never pay some "guru" tons of money to attend a seminar where he offers astounding advice. A good lawyer and accountant should cover any of these areas in our lives where we may fall prey to the enemy - at least financially.

The key is to find a good Christian to cover your bases, both financially and legally.

Maybe this is why it's not a great idea to have too many assets. It just gives the enemy something to go after.

[Russell]

I would imagine that trusting in God in all things is the way to go. Besides, if you are more concerned about hiding money, then we are in having integrity and putting our faith in God then what would that say about us.

And if someone wanted to sue me then 9 times out of 10 we should be able to settle things out of court.

And last time I checked you can't take any of it with you, so if someone is that desperate to screw you then they are going to do it no matter what anyway.

But abiding in God's love, and seeking His will for our lives should cover any situation such as you are hypothesizing.

And I would never pay some "guru" tons of money to attend a seminar where he offers astounding advice. A good lawyer and accountant should cover any of these areas in our lives where we may fall prey to the enemy - at least financially.

The key is to find a good Christian to cover your bases, both financially and legally.

Maybe this is why it's not a great idea to have too many assets. It just gives the enemy something to go after.

Thanks barracuda,

Worth thinking about.

[irishcowboy]

to be properly covered with insurance is one thing that I would recommend,

how much is enough, is an individual thing, cause none of us are the same...

I know of one person that has been up before the courts aprox 10 times in as many years, trying to sue some one, and some he has won.

the Bible tells us to remain blameless, this is good advice.

as far as protecting ones home, that is a good idea also,

if a person is renting, it is a good idea to have renters insurance, cause there are many landlords/owners that do not have insurance on their houses they rent, and well, even if they did, it does not cover the personal effects of the tenent.

if you own, it is a good idea to have home owners insurance, even if you have it paid off, for if some joker comes around and breaks a leg, or is looking for a new home for themselves, they may try to sue you for it.... and you know, there are alot of things that can be brought up in a law suite.....

what is bad, is that in general, in the biblical times, the lawyers were close to the scum of the earth, they have not changed, but now they are getting paid better (hahahahahha).....

we have to watch our backs, and each others.....

we are told not to bring our brothers up in a suite.....

that dont stop others from suing us...... or even our brothers.... for what ever reason.....

do you know how many law suites have been filed against ladder companies????

people getting up on the top and then trying to reach something 5 feet away when their arm is only 18 - 24 inches long, they fall and blame the ladder company for some stupid thing or other...... look at all the warning lables there are on a ladder, each one represents a bunch of law suites.....

have you looked at the drink cups lately??? even the ones that are reusable?

oh, something else to keep in mind...... something that many people do not realize.... and that is auto insurance...

did you know that if you have an adult child living in your house, ( over 21, age dont matter ) and for some reason they do not have auto insurance, but you are supporting them ( cause they are staying in your house you are supporting them to some degree ) and they are involved in an accident, that the other party can sue you for what ever the court will allow.... yep, even thou that adult child is 30, 40 , it dont matter the age...... if you are supporting them any at all, then it is expected that you can support them by helping out and paying their insurance...

protecting ones liability is a smart thing to do, but spending bunches on some one else to tell you how to do it is ( in my opinion ) silly.

like paying some one hundreds of dollars to set up a budget, when there are organizations that do it for free ( to include some pastors )

mike

[Russell]

Thanks for the reply Mike,

I seem to be leaning to finding a good lawyer/accountant who can advise me in this area. I have been speaking to some of my older customers who advise the same.

It is just getting the right perspective on this...I mean how much should we trust in God and leave it in His hands...and if this is applied totally...for instance having no insurance...are we in fact being foolish...I tend to think we are being foolish in this instance. :hug:

Cheers

[ginakay]

On first reading this I was thinking, this fellow can help you hide your money alright---in his pocket

[Guest Marc]

Hi Russel, hi forum, first post...here we go.

I read you post with interest. The question that comes to mind immediately is ... why asking such specialised question in a Christian BB? Why not ask your solicitor?

Perhaps you think that you need some validation from your brethren in order to take an action (asset protection) generally associated wit the wealthy... and wealthy people as we all know, are usually evil . . . .

Ok, I don't mean that last statement in fact I know it to be false even when it is preached around the world profusely..

I was only suggesting that perhaps your question shows some un-easiness with matters regarding money. Well, you are certainly not alone.

As Christians, we are also stewards of the material blessings we receive from our Lord. If He has blessed you with a home and an income to support and house your family, it is only common sense that you look after what you are given. The fact that you know such assets to be temporary does not mean you can take unnecessary risks. (After all, your body is temporary but you don't take chances playing chicken on the highway do you?)

You state that we are all exposed to the chances of being sued, so there is no security, correct.

So should we trust God and stay uninsured or should we pay insurance and don't bother God with such pity matters? We can take that further, if I become ill should I go to the doctor and not tell God or should I trust God to heal me? Or perhaps if I cross the road, should I look both sides before crossing, trusting just my eyesight or should I trust God to stop the cars that may hit me?

I hope no one is upset at my absurd propositions; they are only illustration to get us thinking.

Insurance does not mean we trust our wisdom more than we trust God, just as going to the doctor does not show lack of faith in God. When God blesses his children, he gives wisdom and wealth. We must use both.

Do not feel uneasy at buying insurance up to the level of risk your activities encompass. Insurance is one of those things it is better to err on the high rather than on the low, providing the payments fall inside the reasonable, and as others have said, there are all sorts of insurance.

The ultimate asset protection is of course not having any. If you have nothing, none can be taken from you.

If you feel you need this sort of protection, a question only a good solicitor can answer, there are different ways to lock your assets away in corporate structures. Since I live in Australia, I cannot tell you what to do in the US but I venture that it is not much different.

In Australia what we do is register a Trust, usually a discretionary trust, with a trustee and beneficiaries, where the trustee is a non trading company with you and wife as directors, and beneficiaries you can have your kids, parents in laws etc, and of course yourself as well. The holding company that acts as trustee holds all your assets. You business is a separate company that is also a beneficiary

If you lose a court case and they come after your assets, they are not in your name. The fact that the trust is discretionary means that the proportion of asset that is redistributed to you as beneficiary is not set in units but is discretion of the directors, so no court can determine what you own and therefore there is no remedy to recover from you.

Not sure how it is in the US but our corporate law do determine company directors responsibilities in criminal cases, so you are not immune to do what you please, but you have this way the highest possible asset protection. Please do not take this comments as advise, ask your solicitor. You may find that for you it is better to have a holding company in another country or any number of other solutions.

There are other more creative ways, usually reserved to the criminally minded, like shifting all your assets to a third party that is legally insane but with you holding a power of attorney, but I gather you are not interested in that

As for the seminar that costs $1,800 to disclose this valuable secrets, I say, if it is legal the law is public domain, and the experts in the law are lawyers not accountants. Go to a good lawyer who will hopefully not charge you 1800 and get good sound advice as to how to better protect your assets according to your level or risk. In fact, I would first choose a reputable firm and ask the question. So and so is selling his secrets for $1800 for how to protect my assets, can you deliver the same information for a reasonable sum?

Finally, yet importantly, trust God that He will lead you to the best professional to solve your problem wisely.

PS

Seminars are not necessarily a crook proposition. I know people who pay $15,000 to attend a 2-3 days seminar (plus airfare) and get value for money.

[Guest Marc]

A simple Google search on "asset protection in the USA" produced a long string of links . . .

http://www.lifespirit.org/assetprotect.html

http://investormap.com/x/offshore-banking/...protection.html

Plus many more seminars, books you name it you'v got it. It is not a secret. Even when I think that after all $1800, if it includes acting for you is not money badly spent.