"I'm a Christian" do u take them at their word?

[Vickilynn]

Usually you can tell the authientic by if they are offended when you ask the how do they know they are a Christian?

Shalom David,

Please answer the question, WHAT specifically are you talking about?

A position in a church or questioning whether someone you know is saved?

[Ddavid from NC]

Usually you can tell the authientic by if they are offended when you ask the how do they know they are a Christian?

Shalom David,

Please answer the question, WHAT specifically are you talking about?

A position in a church or questioning whether someone you know is saved?

The question would incorporate both areas. When someone says, "I am a Christian", do we have a right to evaluate the validity of their statement or is it not up for discussion?

[Guest LadyC]

it is our responsibility to find out what they mean by "christian", and share with them the true depth of what it means if they don't know.

[Vickilynn]

Usually you can tell the authientic by if they are offended when you ask the how do they know they are a Christian?

Shalom David,

Please answer the question, WHAT specifically are you talking about?

A position in a church or questioning whether someone you know is saved?

The question would incorporate both areas. When someone says, "I am a Christian", do we have a right to evaluate the validity of their statement or is it not up for discussion?

The question cannot incorporate both areas.

In one, we are placing ourselves as judges of their hearts.

In another, we are hiring ministers.

Sorry, they are completely separate issues.

As I said, I don't hire ministers and I don't judge people's hearts.

[Ddavid from NC]

Usually you can tell the authientic by if they are offended when you ask the how do they know they are a Christian?

Shalom David,

Please answer the question, WHAT specifically are you talking about?

A position in a church or questioning whether someone you know is saved?

The question would incorporate both areas. When someone says, "I am a Christian", do we have a right to evaluate the validity of their statement or is it not up for discussion?

The question cannot incorporate both areas.

In one, we are placing ourselves are judges of their hearts.

In another, we are hiring ministers.

Sorry, they are completely separate issues.

As I said, I don't hire ministers and I don't judge people's hearts.

How would you follow the command to not be unequally yoke unless you made some sort of evaluation of a person's preofesson?

[woden]

when someone claims to be a christian but their lifestyle doesn't reflect it, that's the perfect opportunity to ask them what being a christian means to them... to ask them what Christ means to them. to WITNESS to them. there are so many "generational christians" in the world. what i mean by that is that their parents either took them to church every sunday when they were a kid, or maybe just had some abstract concept of God and Jesus and passed that down to their kids.

what are the statistics now? something like 80% of the people in america claim to be christian? but there are a whole lot of those that haven't got a clue what it means to have a personal relationship with Christ.

Second Generation Christians they are known over here in the UK. I'm one and can identify with what you are trying to say. However from the outset this seemed to be a question within a question, if you get my meaning. Something troubles you about a person's claim to be something they are not, you see it but others don't. Are they reaching out for something that they are not entitled to because of their actions and inactions. Are they a "Christian" in name only?

What you can do is approach someone of seniority in your church and privately tell them of your concerns. Or if you are bold, approach the person directly and kindly get them to talk about what it means to be a Christian. It could be a misunderstanding on your part, and you do not want that to escalate.

If you are right in your feelings remember that God sees all. There may be a reason why this is happening. Is it to reveal a course of action that has been going on in secret? Sometimes and I know this from experience in my own congregation some things go on for years before being revealed. Why? God wants sinners to repent or if they don't the holy spirit will get it revealed. These people think God is a mug, a fool. They think they can fool people and God. What does this show? Pride, selfishness, self-centred thinking with no love for God and fellow worshippers. If there are people in your faith who think like this, God has a surprise for them.

[ayin jade]

When someone says, "I am a Christian", are you to take them at their word?

For some people, being a Christian means their parents took them to church a few times as a child. No I do not take them at their word. I ask them who Jesus is to them. That tells me more whether or not they are believers.

What if their behavior is in open conflict with that statement?

I might ask them how their walk with the Lord is going rather than blindly assume they are not saved. I would urge them to get their lives back on track, to follow Him.

Does the Bible's statement, "Judge not lest you be judged", does that mean we are not to be the jury?

That is the most overused and abused verse I think. Too many claim "do not judge" to blindly ignore things that we Christians are to judge. For instance, in the epistles, we are told to cast out an unrepentent brother. How could that be done if we do not judge? We are told to urge our brothers to turn from sin if we see them in sinful situations. Again, how can we do that if we are not to judge?

Is there ministry without judging the validity of their statement?

No

What if they are harming the testimony of the church?

People who are in ministry who are not meeting the qualifications of ministry shouldnt be in ministry. For instance, Ive encountered at least 2 church leaders who were having affairs in their church but wouldnt stop the affairs. No one knew about it except for the "lucky" people they confessed to. They were urged to step down from their position if they didnt cut off the affairs. They refused because what other job could they get, they had families to support etc. Did we "wrongfully" judge them when we told them to step down? Or did we do as the bible prescribes in urging them to repent of their sins and be true to God.

In qualifying if someone can hold a position in the church, aren't we testing the fruits of their profession?

We are told to test them, to test the spirits.

[Vickilynn]

How would you follow the command to not be unequally yoke unless you made some sort of evaluation of a person's preofesson?

Shalom David,

WHAT?? WOW, you really need a hobby!!

So, you've gone from hiring someone in church, to telling is someone is saved, now to marriage???

Again, we cannot judge someone's HEART. Only G-d can. If you believe someone is a Christian, you can marry them. That is following the command. No one knows another's heart though, you have to trust and have faith.

[Guest LadyC]

ok, so if someone says "i'm a christian" but they party every night, get drunk and high all the time, cuss like a sailor, kick the dog, beat their wife, we should take them at their word because to question their salvation is judging their heart?

i so totally disagree. as i said before, if someone is claiming they are a christian and failing to act like one, it is our responsibility to be a witness and testify to Christ to that person.

it is our responsibility to point out their sin.

it is our responsibility to admonish them in love.

i think it would be very wise for us to initiate a deeper discussion by asking "what does Christ mean to you?"

if we don't know the person in real life and have no opportunity to discuss Christ with them, then we can still judge their fruit and pray for them.

we can't judge their heart, i.e. the state of their salvation, but we can and SHOULD question them further if possible, or avoid their "teachings" if not.

[Vickilynn]

ok, so if someone says "i'm a christian" but they party every night, get drunk and high all the time, cuss like a sailor, kick the dog, beat their wife, we should take them at their word because to question their salvation is judging their heart?

Shalom LadyC,

Oh my. Where o where did you come up with all that as if that is what has been said here?

David has been talking about a) hiring at church. b] Then judging if someone is saved c) false prophets and then c) marriage!

Which one do you disagree with??