Can we agree on this

[dgolvach]

I don't really want for this to turn into one of those big heated debates. I have been an active member of the Church of the Nazarine for 11 years. I love my church family. The official church doctrine is the Arminius one. I myself tend to slightly lean more towards OSAS but I am not 100% sure I'm right. Still, I don't find it difficult to worship and fellowship there because I think we can all agree on this. Christianity is not a free ticket to sin like hell just because you've asked Christ to come into your life. Living in deliberate sin without conviction is not a sign of salvation. I can also see the point that we own the choice about God. We can choose to accept him or reject him so just as we welcome him into our lives, we have the freedom to send him away if we so choose. This does not mean that a Christian struggling with a particular sin is damned even though he is responcible to seek God on the issue. This is where the Holy Spirit convicts but dosen't condemn. I have seen some posts on this and other boards from those who claim they are now completely without any sin and they never slip at all. If they do they lose their salvation right away.

So in a nutshell...Salavtion is not living like hell and getting away with it ...but nor is it a yo yo scenerio where you are saved at 1:00PM and Lost at 2:00 for having an inpure thought like jealousy, anger, greed or lust.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Dan

[stan4257]

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Not sure about any yes or no answers, or even why they might be necessary. For me, saying what I usually do but with a different emphasis to match the question (s) being asked:

Any person seeking a real relationship with God does so by obeying the commands of Jesus Christ to love our Heavenly Father by meeting the needs of others in need as if those needs were our own.

On this principle hangs all Christian experience.

So I agree with you. No need to spend too much time worrying, just get on with helping others in the name and love of Jesus Christ. In that way comes love, joy and peace.

[Ddavid from NC]

I don't really want for this to turn into one of those big heated debates. I have been an active member of the Church of the Nazarine for 11 years. I love my church family. The official church doctrine is the Arminius one. I myself tend to slightly lean more towards OSAS but I am not 100% sure I'm right. Still, I don't find it difficult to worship and fellowship there because I think we can all agree on this. Christianity is not a free ticket to sin like hell just because you've asked Christ to come into your life. Living in deliberate sin without conviction is not a sign of salvation. I can also see the point that we own the choice about God. We can choose to accept him or reject him so just as we welcome him into our lives, we have the freedom to send him away if we so choose. This does not mean that a Christian struggling with a particular sin is damned even though he is responcible to seek God on the issue. This is where the Holy Spirit convicts but dosen't condemn. I have seen some posts on this and other boards from those who claim they are now completely without any sin and they never slip at all. If they do they lose their salvation right away.

So in a nutshell...Salavtion is not living like hell and getting away with it ...but nor is it a yo yo scenerio where you are saved at 1:00PM and Lost at 2:00 for having an inpure thought like jealousy, anger, greed or lust.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Dan

I suggest you read Eternal Security by Dr. Charles Stanley. You need to decide if you believe the doctrine. Your post is not something I would want ridicule necessarily, but I would like to say your thoughts show you really have not been exposed to a clear understanding of Arminian doctrine or eternal security. Do you self a favor and read the book. It is an easy read designed for laymen. Then you will have enough information to make your own decision and own it. Your doctrinal stance on this issue in many ways effects your whole theology and Biblical interpretation.

[Massorite]

I don't really want for this to turn into one of those big heated debates. I have been an active member of the Church of the Nazarine for 11 years. I love my church family. The official church doctrine is the Arminius one. I myself tend to slightly lean more towards OSAS but I am not 100% sure I'm right. Still, I don't find it difficult to worship and fellowship there because I think we can all agree on this. Christianity is not a free ticket to sin like hell just because you've asked Christ to come into your life. Living in deliberate sin without conviction is not a sign of salvation. I can also see the point that we own the choice about God. We can choose to accept him or reject him so just as we welcome him into our lives, we have the freedom to send him away if we so choose. This does not mean that a Christian struggling with a particular sin is damned even though he is responcible to seek God on the issue. This is where the Holy Spirit convicts but dosen't condemn. I have seen some posts on this and other boards from those who claim they are now completely without any sin and they never slip at all. If they do they lose their salvation right away.

So in a nutshell...Salavtion is not living like hell and getting away with it ...but nor is it a yo yo scenerio where you are saved at 1:00PM and Lost at 2:00 for having an inpure thought like jealousy, anger, greed or lust.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Dan

That be the way it is my brother.

[Vickilynn]

I suggest you read Eternal Security by Dr. Charles Stanley. You need to decide if you believe the doctrine. Your post is not something I would want ridicule necessarily, but I would like to say your thoughts show you really have not been exposed to a clear understanding of Arminian doctrine or eternal security. Do you self a favor and read the book. It is an easy read designed for laymen. Then you will have enough information to make your own decision and own it. Your doctrinal stance on this issue in many ways effects your whole theology and Biblical interpretation.

Shalom David,

I disagree. Arminian and Calvinistic doctrines are "man made" and named for the men that articulated the doctrines.

"Eternal security" is not in the Bible, but a doctrine extrapolated from Scripture and made into a doctrine of the church.

It is not essential to salvation and one need not "own" it to be saved.

[Vickilynn]

So in a nutshell...Salavtion is not living like hell and getting away with it ...but nor is it a yo yo scenerio where you are saved at 1:00PM and Lost at 2:00 for having an inpure thought like jealousy, anger, greed or lust.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Shalom Dan,

Yes. I also would say that you are living according to the Word and trusting (in faith by G-d's grace) G-d for your salvation.

Ephesians 2:8

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[EricH]

I don't really want for this to turn into one of those big heated debates. I have been an active member of the Church of the Nazarine for 11 years. I love my church family. The official church doctrine is the Arminius one. I myself tend to slightly lean more towards OSAS but I am not 100% sure I'm right. Still, I don't find it difficult to worship and fellowship there because I think we can all agree on this. Christianity is not a free ticket to sin like hell just because you've asked Christ to come into your life. Living in deliberate sin without conviction is not a sign of salvation. I can also see the point that we own the choice about God. We can choose to accept him or reject him so just as we welcome him into our lives, we have the freedom to send him away if we so choose. This does not mean that a Christian struggling with a particular sin is damned even though he is responcible to seek God on the issue. This is where the Holy Spirit convicts but dosen't condemn. I have seen some posts on this and other boards from those who claim they are now completely without any sin and they never slip at all. If they do they lose their salvation right away.

So in a nutshell...Salavtion is not living like hell and getting away with it ...but nor is it a yo yo scenerio where you are saved at 1:00PM and Lost at 2:00 for having an inpure thought like jealousy, anger, greed or lust.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

Yes ? No?

Dan

I think you are correct in a sense. Those who hold to perseverance of the saints believe that all who are generally saved will persevere and one of the signs of perseverance is the sanctified life. Those who hold to conditional security hold that one can lose ther salvation if they don't continue in sanctification. So both agree that sanctification is essential. Where they differ is what it means if it is not present. Calvinists believe that if it is not present , they were never saved. Armenians believe that if it is not present they may heve been saved an lost it. But both agree it is essential.

[EricH]

I suggest you read Eternal Security by Dr. Charles Stanley. You need to decide if you believe the doctrine. Your post is not something I would want ridicule necessarily, but I would like to say your thoughts show you really have not been exposed to a clear understanding of Arminian doctrine or eternal security. Do you self a favor and read the book. It is an easy read designed for laymen. Then you will have enough information to make your own decision and own it. Your doctrinal stance on this issue in many ways effects your whole theology and Biblical interpretation.

Shalom David,

I disagree. Arminian and Calvinistic doctrines are "man made" and named for the men that articulated the doctrines.

"Eternal security" is not in the Bible, but a doctrine extrapolated from Scripture and made into a doctrine of the church.

It is not essential to salvation and one need not "own" it to be saved.

Tru, but understanding it is always wise.

[Vickilynn]

Tru, but understanding it is always wise.

Shalom Eric,

Yes, I agree, but by Dan's own words, he does not consider this doctrine "essential" and does not wish to spend his time worrying about it.

You might hold one position or another but as long as you are daily seeking a real relationship with God made possible by Christ, and holding yourself accountable to him you really need not spend too much time worrying about this issue.

If he seeks to understand more and delve into this issue more, that is is his choice. And, in fact, one's position may change over the years as they gain new or different understanding.

My point is, I disagree with David that it is an essential doctrine to "own" and someone MUST decide one way or the other. I do not believe that to be true. I believe somewhere in between.

[Guest man]

What if you don't hold to any doctrine except the bible...then what?