intersting article in legalism in the church

[Richard_yaash]

Further, all three are in fact something that do deeply and sincerely bother me.

For which I apologized and asked for your forgiveness

Yes you did, I do not dispute that. I was not only willing, but desired to leave it lay. Had you not 'publically' questioned my motives, I would not have 'publically' responded.

but you have continued to chastise me and did not accept my apology.

Vickilynn, I did and do accept your apology for what it is worth. I do not need to specifically say 'apology accepted', for it was indeed accepted. It is still accepted, nor will I question it. Again, my further response this evening would never had been made had you not chosen to 'publically' call my motives into question.

And the Scriptures clearly state that if indeed you are offended by someone, you should follow the Biblical mandate for handling that: Matthew 18, which is in PRIVATE.

I fully know and understand it. As you are suggesting as much, wouldn't it have indeed been better to have questioned my motives "privately"? Had you done so, I would have responded "privately" and this regrettable situation could have been avoided.

And yes, I could just as easily have done something to avoid it. My point being, let neither of us attempt to place blame upon the other for something that either or both of us could have done to avoid it.

And that Richard, is all I have to say publicly to you on this matter. It is hijacking the thread.

As you wish.

[Guest Biblicist]

this particular post comes from your reply on "women wearing pants" page 41 post #408

Considering ones self instead of God's wants for your life is evil. It's selfishness. Selfishness is a sin. That's really what we are talking about here. Who do we care to please, God, or our own selfish desire to be "free" to express ourselves? That's not the type of freedom Christ promises.

this statement tells anyone who is apposed to believing that wearing (or whatever it might be that you yourself has been convicted of is also the will of God for their lifes too) what we choose (even though quite stressed by me throughout the thread that I remain modest at all times) is going against what God "wants for your life is evil" " It's selfishness" "selfishness is a sin". Christ expressed himself in all ways and we are free to do the same. Christ was a non-conformist to all of man's sillyness and that is one of the reasons they hated Him so much.

You see Bibs, it isn't that you are not allowed to believe for yourself that wearing what you want in consideration of those who might "stumble" is a good thing as that is your personal conviction....but to tell me that because I don't go along with your personal conviction I am evil, selfish and sinful because of it, is wrong of you...I have not gone against what you believe as your personal convictions, what I have come up against is your statements that tells me that I am sinful because I don't have the same convictions. These things believe it or not are legalistic in attitude and they create burdens on me that you have no right to place on me.

There was a time when I believed I could dress any way I wished, but as I have matured and realize that my body does not belong to myself. First it belongs to my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who spilled his blood to redeem me from permenant separation from God almighty. Then it belongs to my husband. What they want for me is what I should desire to obtain.

for you Bibs, this is great. And just to put emphasis on what you have emphasized, I too have matured enough to know that my clothing, because of the fact that I am not a loose woman nor do I dress as one, is not enough to cause one to stumble but that those who stumble over a pair of jeans or one who stumbles because they look at a woman who is dressed in a way that gives you an unclean thought about her possibly being lesbian...it is not the wearers fault these things happen in your mind...it is yours and your responsibility...

and another quote from post #374

Since I have a cousin that used to be a lesbian, when I see a woman who is dressed without makeup and a boyish hair cut, no matter what fancy dress pants she is wearing, I automatically assume she is lesbian, simply because that is the way my cousin and her ex-friends dress. I just know the style. Each group has their style, goth, rappers, nerds, jocks, gays and lesbians, and when I see someone dressed in one of those styles, it's easy to assume that they are trying to emulate that lifestyle. Even if they are not.

in this quote Bibs, you are saying again that because someone dresses a certain way they are the cause of your own unclean thoughts about them...why should they change for you so that you don't have unclean thoughts? I don't say this to be rude to you, but Bibs, if your own eye causes you to sin, then pluck it out. But don't put restrictions on people because you are the sinner in your own thoughts and attitudes toward them.

Now this is love..Bibs, for you and everyone out there that think I must be responsible for your own unclean thoughts of another and to speak in love to you by telling you that it isn't them that has caused you to sin, it is your own prejudice and unclean mind.

with love and blessings dear sister.

(PS Bibs...I know that you are not condemning the wearing of pants...I just wanted to show you that the attitude of certain statements causes one to pause and wonder if their is agenda to turn legalistic about certain things such as how a woman may or may not dress...and I am just now learning how to communicate clearly and clalmly to you and others about where I am and trying really hard not to be condemning by the nature of my words too...so have I hurt you by anything at all that I have said to you then I greatly apologize.

be blessed sister)

I have answerd her in private since she has decided to stop posting in this thread, and it is clearly a matter between myself and Jackie.

Just so that no one thinks I am ignoring her summation of my statements.

[Richard_yaash]

I have certainly noticed a difference in how men respond when I wear tight jeans, and when I wear a more modest cut pants or a long skirt. The wrong cut pants, designed to show off the figure, can certainly cause a man to lust. Where, if I wear something more modest it certainly makes it easier for my brother in Christ to avoid lust. See, I dont want to be the cause of my brother in Christ lusting after me for even a *second*.

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

No where have I advocated "tight jeans". As for lust, I walk around in this world, it is my duty to keep my eyes where they belong. When my wife was alive, my eyes never strayed, for she was the only one I had eyes for. Even at this time, my eyes do not stray, for there is none to compare with the one I seek. And I shall await for her.

[Richard_yaash]

it is clearly a matter between myself and...

Understood and respected.

[Vickilynn]

No where have I advocated "tight jeans". As for lust, I walk around in this world, it is my duty to keep my eyes where they belong. When my wife was alive, my eyes never strayed, for she was the only one I had eyes for. Even at this time, my eyes do not stray, for there is none to compare with the one I seek. And I shall await for her.

Shalom,

While that's great for you, the question is:

But what about "the weaker brother"? The strong Christians are responsible for not making the "weaker" ones stumble.

Romans 14

1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself,but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

15For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

[Richard_yaash]

All it takes is one second of lust, and you have committed adultery, so unless you walk around with a blindfold, it's not possible for you to 100% avoid seeing scantily clad women. However, I shall do my part and dress modestly, even if most of the world does not.

Indeed. Thus why I avoid such places, so that I will not fall.

[Emily~Anne]

All it takes is one second of lust, and you have committed adultery, so unless you walk around with a blindfold, it's not possible for you to 100% avoid seeing scantily clad women. However, I shall do my part and dress modestly, even if most of the world does not.

Indeed. Thus why I avoid such places, so that I will not fall.

You stay housebound?

[Vickilynn]

All it takes is one second of lust, and you have committed adultery, so unless you walk around with a blindfold, it's not possible for you to 100% avoid seeing scantily clad women. However, I shall do my part and dress modestly, even if most of the world does not.

Indeed. Thus why I avoid such places, so that I will not fall.

You stay housebound?

Shalom,

And blindfolded?

[Guest Biblicist]

Bibs, I commend you for handling that in the proper Matthew 18 manner. However, it seems the mods should have immediately deleted such a post that was reviving a closed thread? I posted a few links to a modest clothing companies,(in the spirit of being helpful for those struggling to find decent clothes in this day and age) and that got deleted due to the fact that the pants thread got closed. *confused*

No, it's OK, Emily Anne. I asked her to post the comments that she was refering to. Since I had no idea what she was talking about only she could show me. I appreciate the time she took to find them and point them out to me and we have worked it out between the two of us.

If anyone here needs me to explain my statements further, I will try, although, they are somewhat out of context and I felt I was explaining myself pretty well at the time.

Anyway, don't you worry about a thing. Thanks for your concern though.

I'm sorry your clothing thread got closed. Maybe you should save the information, and when things die down some, ask the MOD's if you can repost them. They are very understanding...well some of them are.

[Guest Biblicist]

I have certainly noticed a difference in how men respond when I wear tight jeans, and when I wear a more modest cut pants or a long skirt. The wrong cut pants, designed to show off the figure, can certainly cause a man to lust. Where, if I wear something more modest it certainly makes it easier for my brother in Christ to avoid lust. See, I dont want to be the cause of my brother in Christ lusting after me for even a *second*.

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

No where have I advocated "tight jeans". As for lust, I walk around in this world, it is my duty to keep my eyes where they belong. When my wife was alive, my eyes never strayed, for she was the only one I had eyes for. Even at this time, my eyes do not stray, for there is none to compare with the one I seek. And I shall await for her.

All it takes is one second of lust, and you have committed adultery, so unless you walk around with a blindfold, it's not possible for you to 100% avoid seeing scantily clad women. However, I shall do my part and dress modestly, even if most of the world does not.

Not every man has a problem with lusting with his eyes, just like not everyone has a problem with alcoholism, or covetousness, or greed....