intersting article in legalism in the church

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

I also WONDER how some of the same people that are condemning playing the Lotto and calling it sin when the Bible does not are being the "Legalists" they are condemning in THIS thread.

If someone rails against so-called legalists for pushing THEIR personal views on others, and then turn around and do it themselves (for example playing Lotto), they are worse than legalists in my book, they are hypocrites.

Hi Vickilynn,

Perhaps we should try and keep each thread separated. For myself, again my weak conscience is showing, but I do find it highly offensive when someone drags things from thread to thread.

Shalom Richard,

I am sorry that you are offended and I have not intentionally offended you. Let me explain. When we have topics that over-lap sometimes it is helpful to put the threads in perspective by relating them to one another. When we have the SAME people railing against one thing in one thread and then turning around and DOING that behavior which they rail against in aother thread, I believe that needs to be brought out and exposed for BOTH threads' sake.

I would not offend you for the world, so I will do my best to refrain from offending you in the future. Please forgive me.

[Richard_yaash]

I wasn't addressing you at all

It remains however an open forum. And we are each free to address each other. Preferably gently and with love.

I've read your posts, but I don't agree. Simple as that.

Nothing wrong with that either. Hopefully, we may each do so respectfully.

There's nothing wrong with differing views.

They are actually quite beneficial at times. As Paul wrote: 1 Cor 11:19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God

[Richard_yaash]

What is happening today in a lot of churches is that certain immature believers want to make a bunch of rules according to their conscience that are not really about sin and put the rest of the congregation under them.

Sadly, I have seen that as well. However, I do understand the dynamics of how it comes to be.

This is like the toddler running the household. If that is happening in your church, and you can

[Richard_yaash]

What a lot of people label as "legalism" is really nothing more than cult-like control.

Concurred.

[Richard_yaash]

Have you ever read all of the laws in God's word

Yes, I have. And I have found them as:

Deuteronomy 30:11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

You follow laws every day. Why? Because you are commanded to by your state.

No. Because of this:

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Do you break those laws? Sure. We all do.

I actually try hard to uphold those laws. Not that it makes me any better, but because it is my witness, my testimony. And because I am asked too not make their work a burden.

[i exceede speed limit on a regular basis ]

This regrettably is yet another example of my weak conscience. Yes, we all may speed a little at times, for none of us is perfect. But to make a statement that verges upon boastfulness of it and a 'laugh', I have a real hard time with it. It deeply saddens me.

[Richard_yaash]

Shalom Richard,

I am sorry that you are offended and I have not intentionally offended you. Let me explain. When we have topics that over-lap sometimes it is helpful to put the threads in perspective by relating them to one another. When we have the SAME people railing against one thing in one thread and then turning around and DOING that behavior which they rail against in aother thread, I believe that needs to be brought out and exposed for BOTH threads' sake.

I would not offend you for the world, so I will do my best to refrain from offending you in the future. Please forgive me.

I do understand what you are saying. However I think that most of us are somewhat intelligent individuals. That being said, most of us who are regulars also follow the threads and have no need to see such splattered all across the boards. That is where I am the most deeply saddened, and truthfully, I have witnessed such reduce some really good places of fellowship in nothing more than 'haunts'.

I know, some may say but what about the onlookers/outsiders/lurkers? I think most of them are relatively intelligent individuals as well and they will notice such behavior. However, when we drag such along and around, it begins to permeate the boards. When such occurs, it begins a fermentation process amoung us and the bitterness of it is plain for everyone to see, inclusive of onlookers/outsiders/lurkers.

I do not think that many of us here ever intend to be offensive to one another. Regrettably though, it does happen.

I would hope, that we each might remember this:

Proverbs 19:11 Those with good sense are slow to anger, and it is their glory to overlook an offense.

Yes, I am just as guilty as anyone here, if not moreso.

We are all free in Christ Jesus. We are each called to a different place within the body.

1 Corinthians 12:8 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.

It is IMO our unique and individual callings that allow each of us to serve Him in the manner he sees fit. We each have peculiarites which allow us to each be used and put into places/positions/situations that are unique. Things that not all of us are capable of doing.

And this is the goal: 1 Timothy 1:5 ...love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

So let us each make peace with one another as best we may.

[Guest Biblicist]

the only examples I can give you Bibs are from your own words to folks in the "wearing pants to church" thread...that's 52 pages but I suppose I could pull out how you, yourself said these three words regarding people not buying all the reasons of why a woman should wear a skirt/slacks to church...you used the words EVIL, SINNER AND FOOLS....now I will gladly go back and dredge these posts up for you if you really want them displayed one more time for others to see how your words judged those who did not go along completely with what you and Vickilynn were saying about your particular dress codes...and if a man does sin with his eyes because I am wearing a pair of jeans it will serve him right to have his wife blacken them for him...maybe that is the real issue here women are threatened by other women wearing jeans because they fear their husbands are letches or something...I don't know but that is still not MY problem, it is you wives problems...

So Bibs if you really want me to I will fill this thread with these posts...they will most likely not be recognized as what they really are by you two so what is the use.

Jackie, I know that would be a lot to ask, but if you really believe that I said a woman wearing pants is in sin, then I want to know about it so I can properly explain my intent. I don't intend to lead other's astray but to lead them to a better understanding of what Christ wants from us and how to live a Godly life for Him. I don't think you have to post them all for me, one would be enough. Just mine, thank you.

If I did say that, then I would be a false prophet!

"Your righteous" laws=God's righteous laws, not yours or even Vickilynn's but God's and it is only God who can judge me to be evil, sinner or fool should I hear you give me a law that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that I should follow because some weaker Christian pastor or leader told you guys that if you wear jeans someone is gonna sin! pee-eww!

But I can tell you as a mature Christian that I had better warn my brother of the dangers of gambling practices, including lottery because they do lead to great sin and I would be in grave error to encourage him to do it instead of warn him of those very real-many a testimony-dangers...after that it is on him and if he becomes addicted to it, my hands are clean.

Do you really believe that I want you to follow my rules and not God's? I really don't understand where you are getting that idea from. Honestly I don't.

Gracious Mercy to you,

Bibs

[Guest Biblicist]

I love my brothers in Christ, and it is my desire not to place a stumbling block before them and help them keep a pure mind. I shall do my part, (reasonably that is, I wont be wearing a burka) and the rest is up to the man.

What?! No Burka!? I was gonna go out and get myself one tomorrow!

[Guest Biblicist]

Yes, I have. And I have found them as:

Deuteronomy 30:11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

I like the Deuteronomy 30 verse. "It is not too difficult or beyone your reach. As well as the 1 John verse, His commands are not burdensom.

No. Because of this:

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Well, of course! We follow the laws of our state because we are commanded, not legalisticly, to follow the laws of our state, even if they appear stupid. "No fishing for whales in Ohio on a Sunday".

I actually try hard to uphold those laws. Not that it makes me any better, but because it is my witness, my testimony. And because I am asked too not make their work a burden.

AMEN!

This regrettably is yet another example of my weak conscience. Yes, we all may speed a little at times, for none of us is perfect. But to make a statement that verges upon boastfulness of it and a 'laugh', I have a real hard time with it. It deeply saddens me.

Actually I said it like that to appear human. The smile is just that, a smile. I am not laughing about my sin. God does not laugh about it, and neither do I. If I had meant to make light of my sin I would have posted... or . OK?

[Richard_yaash]

This regrettably is yet another example of my weak conscience. Yes, we all may speed a little at times, for none of us is perfect. But to make a statement that verges upon boastfulness of it and a 'laugh', I have a real hard time with it. It deeply saddens me.

Actually I said it like that to appear human.

So you mean: You are not actually human

Sorry, couldn't resist.

On a somber note though: It is something that I have witnessed far too often.

The smile is just that, a smile.

Understood. Perhaps I took the emoticon too literally [laugh]

My apologies for the misunderstanding.