who would do that??

[Blien]

I think I have an answer to the meaning of all of this....

They (the people who fell of the cliff) were THRILL SEEKERS!!! LoL just kidding..

I think they are the people who are not born of the spirit and trapped by the law of sin and death to sin even though they dont want to sin. They can't help it! But they recognized it! This recognition comes from hearing the word of GOD! But they couldn't find a way out! They didn't know who to call on to save them!

Romans 7:24-25

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 5:12-14

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

[Gerioke]

I forget which passage this is but "Be still and know that I am God" would seem to be an appropriate piece of scripture .

[jackie d]

I forget which passage this is but "Be still and know that I am God" would seem to be an appropriate piece of scripture .

amen

[Guest Biblicist]

I think the dream is a good indicator that we are all caught up too much in our own lives and we forget that there are other's around us that need rescuing as well.

I cried out: Jesus be with me

This has become a very ME society. Even as Christ hung on the cross he asked the LORD for forgiveness of those who were on the ground, not for salvation for himself.

1 John 2

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

this dream is like a parable to me...

the person in the lead (the one who had the dream) was leading those who were running behind. The demon in the path represented traps of sin that people each and every day follow each other into.

(1st warning) Now the lead runner, stopped dead in their tracks. Should the leader have stopped wouldn't you think that the others would have at the very least slowed down to see what was causing their leader to come to a halt on that particular path they were running.

(2nd warning) there was a trap laying in the path that was an obvious trap that was noticed by the other runners.

these people behind the lead person made the choice to ignore the 2 warning signs of sin and death of their own free will....why should the person in the lead be held accountable for those people choosing to sin, when God doesn't even take our free will to choose from us?

You are assuming that the leader was the one who was in the wrong. But the leader's actions and the demon were both warnings to those sheep.

Jesus, doesn't put a stop to us making stupid mistakes and sins, He lets us walk head on into whatever snare we are willing to ignore the clear and present dangers of. The leader, clearly not the Lord had no more ability to remove their choice to exercise free-will than you or I....

Now your statement that after all had happened the person who stopped and refused to be taken to death was in the wrong and it was an all about me thing, thus implying that person was selfish....but he wasn't selfish, he was wise. But again, I look at this as a parable of sorts...kind of like the good servant verses the bad or lazy servant. The one who's senses have been exercised enough to discern good and evil (Heb 5:13) was a servant with a lamp full of oil and that servant refused to compromise his journey with the Lord by not allowing sin to trip him up or by following the rest of the flock down a path to destruction. Had that leader been wrong, why when he called on Jesus did Jesus immediately come to His aid and destroy the enemy that was in his path? Thus showing that the Lord was well pleased with the obedient servant...anyone of those other people who followed over the cliff could have stopped and asked the Lord to rescue them but they did not. And that was clearly a choice made by each one of those who went over the cliff...

Oh yes and let's not forget that the next person in line after the leader, spoke to the demon and asked it if it was trying to trip them? why would that one choose to let the demon trip him and why would those who were behind him willingly follow him from the first to the last yet ignore completely that people were falling to their deaths and that the real leader of the group had not proceeded forward? Clearly their eyes were open to what they were doing as the demon was acknowledged by them.

So again, why the shock at the leader and not those who follow each other into death and destruction?

You're not understanding the nature of the sheep then. Sheep follow the first one, without heed. They don't think for themselves, and have we not been called sheep by our own saviour?

You assume that the person in the dream was the leader. Metaphore for Pastor? Possibly. God holds pastors responsibile for their flock. If a Pastor leads them astray, or allows his flock to be lead astray he will answer for it.

My shock at the statement, who would stand by while wathcing other's fall to their death without doing anything about it, and instead ask for help from the LORD for themselves and not those who were obviously in need? I do not understand that. To me it is an extremely selfish behaviour.

[Blien]

Sometimes you need to do what you need to when there is an emergency procedure on the plane. Put on your gas mask before helping the other person because if you run out of air, so will your ability to help the next person.

Luke 14:26

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters... he cannot be My disciple."

And then sometimes you just need to realize that a dream is just a dream.. not necessarily reflecting on what a person would do in the real situation.

[jackie d]

I think the dream is a good indicator that we are all caught up too much in our own lives and we forget that there are other's around us that need rescuing as well.

I cried out: Jesus be with me

This has become a very ME society. Even as Christ hung on the cross he asked the LORD for forgiveness of those who were on the ground, not for salvation for himself.

1 John 2

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

this dream is like a parable to me...

the person in the lead (the one who had the dream) was leading those who were running behind. The demon in the path represented traps of sin that people each and every day follow each other into.

(1st warning) Now the lead runner, stopped dead in their tracks. Should the leader have stopped wouldn't you think that the others would have at the very least slowed down to see what was causing their leader to come to a halt on that particular path they were running.

(2nd warning) there was a trap laying in the path that was an obvious trap that was noticed by the other runners.

these people behind the lead person made the choice to ignore the 2 warning signs of sin and death of their own free will....why should the person in the lead be held accountable for those people choosing to sin, when God doesn't even take our free will to choose from us?

You are assuming that the leader was the one who was in the wrong. But the leader's actions and the demon were both warnings to those sheep.

Jesus, doesn't put a stop to us making stupid mistakes and sins, He lets us walk head on into whatever snare we are willing to ignore the clear and present dangers of. The leader, clearly not the Lord had no more ability to remove their choice to exercise free-will than you or I....

Now your statement that after all had happened the person who stopped and refused to be taken to death was in the wrong and it was an all about me thing, thus implying that person was selfish....but he wasn't selfish, he was wise. But again, I look at this as a parable of sorts...kind of like the good servant verses the bad or lazy servant. The one who's senses have been exercised enough to discern good and evil (Heb 5:13) was a servant with a lamp full of oil and that servant refused to compromise his journey with the Lord by not allowing sin to trip him up or by following the rest of the flock down a path to destruction. Had that leader been wrong, why when he called on Jesus did Jesus immediately come to His aid and destroy the enemy that was in his path? Thus showing that the Lord was well pleased with the obedient servant...anyone of those other people who followed over the cliff could have stopped and asked the Lord to rescue them but they did not. And that was clearly a choice made by each one of those who went over the cliff...

Oh yes and let's not forget that the next person in line after the leader, spoke to the demon and asked it if it was trying to trip them? why would that one choose to let the demon trip him and why would those who were behind him willingly follow him from the first to the last yet ignore completely that people were falling to their deaths and that the real leader of the group had not proceeded forward? Clearly their eyes were open to what they were doing as the demon was acknowledged by them.

So again, why the shock at the leader and not those who follow each other into death and destruction?

You're not understanding the nature of the sheep then. Sheep follow the first one, without heed. They don't think for themselves, and have we not been called sheep by our own saviour?

You assume that the person in the dream was the leader. Metaphore for Pastor? Possibly. God holds pastors responsibile for their flock. If a Pastor leads them astray, or allows his flock to be lead astray he will answer for it.

My shock at the statement, who would stand by while wathcing other's fall to their death without doing anything about it, and instead ask for help from the LORD for themselves and not those who were obviously in need? I do not understand that. To me it is an extremely selfish behaviour.

if you say so Bibs....to me it is trying to be like God and perform how God performs to think that you or I or anyone else has the power that God has to change the hearts and minds of people. Just because the leader did not speak the signs were there. And we are to keep our eyes open for the SIGNS.....how many prophets in the OT gave signs and word of impending doom yet the people continued to follow along in their sin with each other and ignore them until they were destroyed for their disobedience and sin???? Did God hold the prophet accountable for them not paying attention? Heavens no for the prophet was righteous and obeyed the Lord and the signs He gave them.

I however am of the mind, that with the warning signs and the obvious blessing of the Lord for not being willing to just move along in life blindly following what everyone else is doing, that the leader did the right thing and those who fell to their deaths (as sad as it is) asked for what they got. I could no more stop you or anyone else from following along with the rest of the crowd just because that is what the crowd is doing than you could, people have free will to choose their paths....but then the Lord did say that He will blind those who choose to be blind and deafen those who choose to be deaf, because of their hardened hearts. We can only do so much for our brother and sister, it is God who does the changing of hearts, minds, and souls.

[Guest Biblicist]

It's only a dream, and therefore subject to everyone's differing opinions.

I have given you mine.

[jackie d]

It's only a dream, and therefore subject to everyone's differing opinions.

I have given you mine.

ditto.

yep it is a dream, however I am unable to minimize in my mind what it could be saying to us by using the word only...

blessings

[jackie d]

I was taken to these verses today as I was praying over what could be the meaning behind this dream...this is what was shown to me

Jeremhiah 31:29 In those days they shall say no more:

'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,

And the children's teeth are set on edge'

31:30 "But every one shall die for his OWN iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, HIS teeth shall be set on edge"

the lord is showing that each man is responsible for his own iniquity and it is NOT another's responsibility to make sure someone doesn't sin or that the sin's of others should follow the rest and they pay for the iniquities of others...

[Guest Biblicist]

You and I see Christian responsibilities very differently.