How Can You Honestly Believe In God?

[senerhu]

Faithless,

I just read sanc reply to you and I think they have real wisdom for you. But while reading it, a question came to my mind,

Is your basic question, the foundation of faithless, the question of whether God even exists or not?

[Adstar]

Hello Faithless and welcome to the boards

I wish i could have got into this thread at the start but better late then never.

You said:

I don't know much about Christianity, so please stop me if I am wrong somewhere.

But it is the Christian belief that God creates everyone, right?

Those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior are sent to hell. This much I understand.

But then I must ask, why would a God who supposedly loves me, create me and make me not believe in him? This is not a decision I am making, you don't choose what you believe in, it is a fundamental part of who you are. So why would he create me for the sole purpose of one day sending me to hell to rot for all eternity?

And this is just a question for people like me, who have been exposed to Christianity and know who Jesus Christ is, but don't believe in him.

[Catsmeow]

That's true of medicine, science, the New Age movement, Hinduism and Dr. Phil.

People can convince themselves of just about anything. However, we are spirit beings as well. The spirit becomes 'alive' when you take the first step of asking God to help you to see...to unveil the truth.

I had all these same questions, too. Obviously, something happened that began to unveil these answers to me but it's like trying to teach calculus to a first grader.

You start with the basics and work up...first: Is there a God? You need to come to that conclusion before anything else. Is there a God?

Even a good scientist would want to rule out all other possibilities before proceeding ahead. So as a matter of good science, you have to rule that possiblity out.

Have you done that? Have you been as open and willing to consider this possibility before ruling Him out?

Or have you already made up your mind?

You can't just say, "Well, it doesn't make sense...because I am assuming you are fabricating His existence, therefore, He's probably not real."

That's not good science at all. You've already made an assumption without putting it to the test.

If you truly want the answer...an accurate answer that will stand the test of scrutiny, simply ask God.."Are you real? If so, I DO want to know You."

Starting there, you have nothing to lose.

That's where it started with me. You'll never find answers if your mind has preconceived notions and you're not really interested in finding the truth.

I was an atheist yet I was open to the distant possibility that maybe, just maybe there was a God....So, not willing to leave any stone unturned, I began to look.

I didn't want to miss anything...just in case.

I found that in just that little inquiry..."God, if You are real, I want to know You."

That was enough to reveal to me what I wanted to know...and He did just that..reveal Himself.

If you've already decided it's all in your head and there's no way, you won't see it if it hits you in the head.

People probe the universe for answers instead of probing the One who made it.

[Catsmeow]

faithless: I do hope you'll reread "Sanctification's" post again. It's excellent and filled with wisdom. He made some excellent points and well worth considering.

[Guest faithless]

Senerhu:

I may be over simplifying this so please excuse me, there are many here more learned and wise than I, but God is not asking you to make interpretations on everything that comes to your conscience.

That's not what I'm saying, though. People say to me that if I keep my heart open and search for God, that I will find him. What I'm saying is that if you're searching for something, you will inevitably allow your mind to deceive into believing anything if you look hard enough.

For instance, I got really lucky this morning. I won't go into the specifics of the story, but basically I met the right person at the right place and at the right time, and as a result I won't fail one of my classes this semester. Now, was this a sign from God? NO! It was just a lucky coincidence. If I was on a quest to find God though, I would be mistaking this for undeniable proof of his existence.

sanctification:

Can I ask you this: what is it that you want from God? What is it you are looking for? While it ultimately may not take the shape of God in your mind, everybody is seeking something they do not already have. What do you seek?

The only thing I am seeking is trying to find out why so many people base their entire lives on what I believe is one great lie. I'm not searching for God, I'm 99.999% he doesn't exist. No one can persuade me otherwise. I'm just trying to understand how others can follow an ideology that is built on so little fact and so much blind faith.

Adstar:

I am trying to understand where you are coming from. I am confused you have made two statements that are to me incompatible?

1) "I don't know much about Christianity,"

2)"And this is just a question for people like me, who have been exposed to Christianity and know who Jesus Christ is, but don't believe in him. "

What I was saying there is that I've been exposed to Christianity in that I know who Jesus is and I know a little bit about the faith, unlike people in the far depths of the world who who have no clue what Christianity is or what it stands for. But I am by no means an expert on Christianity, outside of the very basics, I don't know much of anything.

Can i ask you are you an atheist that has read some of the bible and don't know much about Christianity or are you a former Christian who has decided to reject the faith because you found the faith that was delivered to you to be incompatible with justice fairness and logic?

I'm just an atheist who has never read a single passage of the bible and never attended church.

Now from this i feel that you have been taught or come into contact with the doctrines of a man called calvin. Do you know of this man? Did you belong to a Church that taught His doctrines? It would be good for me to know.

Sorry, I've never heard of him.

God created all men with free will so that they could choose Good/Truth over Evil/Lie choosing good is not the same as never doing evil, choosing Good is loving what is good and hating what is evil.

It's not really a choice though. You don't sit down at a table and say to yourself, "Should I be atheist or Christian? I think I'll choose Christian." It's not a choice, it's a fundamental part of who we are. I don't choose to not believe, it's who I am. So if it's who I am, then God created me this way. He created me in a way that made it impossible for me to believe in him. Thus he created me for the sole purpose of one day sending me to hell.

Is this the benevolent God you speak of?

catsmeow:

Sorry, but my mind is set on the issue.

I'm as certain that there is no God as you are certain that there is one.

I'm not asking questions anymore because I don't have any more doubts about his non-existence.

[Adstar]

I'm not asking questions anymore because I don't have any more doubts about his non-existence.

So be it.

May the Creator of all Exsistance reach out to you and bring you to truth. May you be forgiven.

All praise The Ancient of Days

[Shelby]

Hi Faithless,

I also just joined this thread. But I read through each one and I think some of your questions have not been answered. First I hear where you are coming from and even as a Christian I ask those same questions to God sometimes. I was a missionary in an orphanage in Mexico. It was very hard to understand why these 120 children didn't have parents that cared enough to keep them, but some how they were supposed to understand that God loved them. And what about all the children that would never be reached?

Romans 2

12If you sin without knowing what you're doing, God takes that into account. But if you sin knowing full well what you're doing, that's a different story entirely.

That is how I see it. Though this particular scripture is not speaking to that subject, this is the wording I would say. Because even a baby when it is born cannot have the mind to choose Christ yet. But I believe (and I can't find the scripture verse) that you will be judged by what you know.

I describe sin as: doing something that you know is wrong. It could be written law or personal conviction that you sense God has taught you.

It is important to know that we are in a war between good and evil. Satan is constantly trying to throw God's plan, but God is able to use those things that were meant for evil for good. I know that is hard to say to a child who has both parents gone from AIDS, but it is true, that will make that child that much stronger and more dependant on God. Possibly, they will choose not to be sexually active so as to not have the same thing happen to them. It really is about faith.

When I took my first step towards God, a friend told me, "What could it hurt?" So I say that to you. Try it, pray, you don't have to kneel or fold you hands, just sit there and talk to him as you would your friend. Ask him to show you what you need to know. He is truly there and ask him to help you understand what his concept for making the human race was. I do. Especially in Chicago Traffic. (lol)

But seriously, what harm could it do if you just start reading some of the Bible? At least you could learn some history, and maybe, just maybe God will use the scriptures to answer your questions.

God bless you as you search for answers. I am glad you are atleast seeking out the answers and not just going by heresay.

Shelby :hug:

[Matthitjah]

faithless,

You are not certain though. You said you were 99.999% sure. There is a still a one hundredth percent of a chance. That is God!

Also in response to God-man you said;

I'm still not sure what kind of answer you are looking for, but since I don't believe in any sort of spiritual force, the only sort of injustice I know is legal injustice. Injustice, to me, is when the law of the land has not been carried out on a certain individual.

Where did those laws of the land stem from? What of the starving Africans you speak of ? The whole sale slaughter of those innocents by men who only seek to subjucate? What justice will be served on these men? There is no law in that land for the most part. Who will serve Justice? What Law of the land is the right one in your mind? I mean the law takes many forms in many different country's . Which one is right? Or is there a universal Moral code?

Also if your sure? Why are you here?

Peace,

Dave

[rockswillcryout]

Hi faithless,

We are glad you are here challenging us and asking us these questions.

It's not really a choice though. You don't sit down at a table and say to yourself, "Should I be atheist or Christian? I think I'll choose Christian." It's not a choice, it's a fundamental part of who we are. I don't choose to not believe, it's who I am. So if it's who I am, then God created me this way. He created me in a way that made it impossible for me to believe in him. Thus he created me for the sole purpose of one day sending me to hell.

If what you say is true, then nothing in our life is a choice. Where you chose to attend college wasn't a choice, the route you walked this morning wasn't a choice, you posting here wasn't a choice. How is it logical is it for parts of your life to be a choice and other parts of it not?

Why do anything in life if it's not a choice? Why bother to do anything at all? Why not just sit on your couch at home and do nothing? After all, it doesn't matter, the world will go on without me doing anything.

(If everyone felt that way, we wouldn't be a functioning society.)

God did not create you so you would go to hell. But that's been said... so let me ask this:

What kind of fulfillment can you have in life knowing the people in your life HAVE to love you? That they have no choice but to love you? I know I wouldn't want to be around my friends or family if I knew they had to love me. Where is the joy in that? There isn't. God wants us to choose to love him. Why create us otherwise?

Without the choices we are given in life, we are just robots. Without minds or souls. We have no purpose in life. We have no reason to be here on earth.

But, faithless, I know you have a mind and a soul. I know you have choices. I know you choose to love and hate whoever you please. I do to. What evidence can you give me that believing in a higher being like God is not a choice when everything else in life points to the contrary?

[Guest faithless]

Shelby:

I describe sin as: doing something that you know is wrong. It could be written law or personal conviction that you sense God has taught you.

How would that apply to someone like me then?

For instance, I know that Christians believe that non-marital sex is wrong, but I don't personally believe that it is. If I go by what you said, then I wouldn't be doing anything wrong in God's eyes because from my point of view, I don't think that I'm doing anything wrong.

What you said doesn't hold up then, because I'm pretty sure that he would still hold me accountable for my actions, even if I don't personally think they are wrong.

Dr. Luke:

Where did those laws of the land stem from?

A lot of our current laws stem from the bible, which I think is a mistake.

What of the starving Africans you speak of ? The whole sale slaughter of those innocents by men who only seek to subjucate? What justice will be served on these men?

I don't believe there will ever be justice for them.

What Law of the land is the right one in your mind? I mean the law takes many forms in many different country's . Which one is right?

I believe that a country's laws should be free of any morality and simply be put into place to protect its citizens. Laws like the ban on gay marriage, instance, are ludicrous in my mind and serve no real purpose.

Or is there a universal Moral code?

I don't believe that there is.