How Can You Honestly Believe In God?

[Guest LCPGUY]

Faithless,

I hate to bring up creation vs. evolution here, as it is actively debated in other threads. But it key to believing in God.

Many atheists who have come to know the Lord started here, square one. Once they realized that our universe and all that is in it could not have happened randomly, they are forced to conclude that a creator was involved. Some will say by an advanced alien race. But were did they come from?

Most people with an open mind eventually come to the conclusion that all this did not just happen by accident.

Now then, is there any evidence that points to a creator? Of course: The Holy Scriptures. No other religion claims a creation, a creator. Once you accept that God is the Creator, the rest starts becoming more and more apparent. Also, just looking around at the wonders of the universe is a strong case for a creator. Also consider DNA. DNA is a program of sorts. It is information. It is a type of control system. Information cannot evolve from non-information. Order does not evolve from randomness.

People that really want to learn something usually do research on the subject. Have you? I think you said earlier that you have not read much of the Bible. Therefore it would seem your opinions are garnered by listening to others and/or reading anti-biblical material. Or, just what you want to believe.

Do some honest research in this area I beg you.

Both General Lew Wallace and Josh McDowell were atheists'. They both, in different century's set out to prove the Bible wrong and that there was no God. After exhaustive research, they both ended up on their knees at the foot of the cross.

Maybe, if you have an open mind, get a copy of Josh McDowels book "Evidence Demands a Verdict". It is a wonderful starting point and have a Bible handy to check things out as you go.

Seek, with an open mind, and you WILL find the truth. You will surely come to the conclusion that it takes far, far more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God and His word.

I pray the Lord will draw you to Himself and be with you on your journey for the truth.

In His Love,

John

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

Faithless,

Why believe in God?

It's written - but I'm guessing you do not believe what the Bible says.

Prophecy - There are prophecies about Jesus and events that have been fulfilled and even in this generation, we are seeing the pieces coming together to fulfill future prophecies - but I'm guessing you won't buy into that either.

Scientific/historical evidence - without going into this (but I will if you like but you must be serious because this is very tedious) Manuscripts, scrolls, earth's surface and fossils over the entire world etc. But again, I'm guessing this does not phase you.

Changed lives everywhere. What atheist can claim that their lives have been changed for the better or at all and not by their doing?

Let's just say that you can explain away everything I just mentioned. The one thing that you cannot dispute is the changed lives and hearts and EXPERIENCES that we have had in walking with Christ.

Ex: If I put my hand in a fire and get burned, then the next day you tell me a million times that I won't get burned if I stick my hand in there but I won't listen because I've EXPERIENCED it. I know the truth. The same is with a Christian. We have experienced Jesus in our lives working within us.

My experience, my EVIDENCE that he is real is my own transformation. I'm putting myself out here in an attempt to show you He's real whether you've experience Him or not. This is very personal but unless you understand where I came from, you won't understand the awesome thing He has done for me.

He has saved me from a life of prostitution, homosexuality, occult, drinking, disease, suicide, death 7 times, and those are just the things you can see. The inward things are that He has removed the hatred in my heart and replaced it with so much love, He has opened my eyes to my sins and taught me remorse and repentence, and a complete transformation. I cried out to Him in desperation not quite believing in Him but had nowhere else to go and He shook my world. These things are NOT in my head!!! I should be dead or at the very least, in jail.

So you see, I don't think any one of us can convince you that He is real. You have to experience Him. You do this by searching for Him with an open heart. Like someone said before, read your Bible and ask Him to show Himself to you. Do it with sincerity and He will reveal himself to you.

[Guest faithless]

CaliGuy4Christ:

Do you believe Adam and Eve had actual choice?

Interesting question.

I assume you mean whether or not they had a choice when it came to eating the forbidden fruit? I would say that yes, they did have a choice.

But at the same time, they were conceived in such a way that their doom was inevitable. If you create a being that is so vulnerable to evil influences, how can you turn around and expect your creation to fend off its temptations?

God creates Man and makes him weak, vulnerable, and sinful. It may have been Adam's choice to eat the fruit, but he was put in a position where failure was imminent.

Was there anything wrong with God creating beings that had an ability to choose evil over good?

Yes, in fact, if God is omnipotent as you all claim, then I don't understand why he doesn't just vanquish evil. Why does he allow it to linger around?

The problem with that is, God the Father (out of love for the Son) wanted Jesus to have GENUINE fellowship which Jesus cherishes so much. Wouldn

[WayneB]

[Ovedya]

A positive is just a negative of a negative.

All you have to do is interchange the two and switch which term you use as your pivot, and the other one as the negative of that pivot.

This makes no sense. A positive cannot be the negative of a negative for the simple fact that a negative is a negative. You have to first qualify the negative as being something. And if the negative is something then it must not be a negative, and hence, a positive. The minute you substantiate a negative it becomes a positive.

Heat is not the lack of cold. Cold is merely what we call the absence of heat. Likewise, light is not the absence of darkness. Light does not need darkness to prove that it is light. Therefore darkness is the absence of light. It is a negative. In order to prove darkness you have to remove the light. You have to create the negative. Yet the proving of the negative does not disprove the positive.

What I was trying to show was that a world without God's law is a world in lawlessness. A world without God's justice is unjust. A world without God's righteousness is unrighteous, etc. This is the answer to your question.

How so? He's the one that created fault in Adam. He's the one that placed Adam in a situation where his failure was guarranteed. How is that not God's fault? An omnipotent God would not have created such a susceptible being as Adam. An omnipotent God would have predicted the outcome ahead of time. A benevolent omnipotent God would not have allowed this to happen.

God is also just and He is also holy. Surely God knew in advance that Adam would fall. Yet He still gave Adam that choice. If God is omnipresent, then He lives now and He lives then, He also lives in the future. He stretches from eternity past to eternity future. Meaning that right now God is creating the universe, and He is also living in His future kingdom. It

[VRSpock]

vrspock:

Because, one day about 8 years ago I was at my wits end and dared to challenge God asking Him to reveal Himself to me if He really existed......and He did! Without realizing it, I opened myself up to Him and through the Holy Spirit, He caused me to go from 99.999% sure He didn't exist to 100% sure that He did in an instant.

Can I ask you what happened that changed your mind so drastically? People always tell me how they changed their minds, but no one ever tells me actually what made them change their mind.

It was the experience itself that changed my mind. When God speaks to someone, it is on a very personal level and in a very personal way. It's not a booming voice from the sky or even an audible voice.

There are no words that can express what I felt or experienced, but it was the first time I ever felt completely content, at peace and void of any fears. If you want to know what it's like to feel the presence of the Holy Spirit, all you have to do is take the .001% doubt you have in God not existing and ask Him to come into your life.

He didn't just change my mind either. My heart was changed too, in fact, everything I am was changed at that moment. I don't mean I immediately started acting differently or anything, but I most certainly did feel different and looked at things in a new light.

We have to look at the things we experience through a new set of eyes. Take the Star of Bethlehem for example. It guided the wise men to Jesus' birth place. A believer would call that a sign from God. A non-believer would say "coincidence" that it was Mars or a UFO perhaps Haley's comet who knows?....who cares? There's also a theory floating around now that says that the Red Sea's parting was actually due to a massive volcano eruption. That it caused a massive tidal wave which drawed up the waters of the Red Sea causing the water level to temporarily drop for a few moments to reveal a flat rock bed underneath. Thus Moses led his people across just before the backlash of water that killed the Egyptians attempting to pursue. A non-believer could call that whole series of events a coincidence even though the probablity of it all happening at the precise moment that the Jews reached the Red Sea is mathmatically hysterical. Is this how the Red Sea was parted? Who knows and again who cares? The fact that it parted at all at the precise moment it was needed is what matters.

The events that are acts of God are not always miracles in and of themselves. It's the timing of those events that make them miracles.

A very close female friend of mine is currently studying to be an LPN. Like everyone else, I took biology in high school but I never gave much thought to the life process that much until I saw one of her text books. She's currently taking maturnity and pediatrics and in the first part of the text book it shows the actual size of a human fetus at each week for the first 8 weeks of development. It's mass increases exponentially at a mind blowing rate, so much so that it boggles my mind scientifically now to think about it. I mean, I don't see why it doesn't kill the mother like a cancer for something to be growing that fast inside of her. Life itself is truely a mircale.

God is all around us. We just have to open our eyes to his presence.

And if you question the historical accuracy of the Bible, there's a book that someone gave me earlier this year by Josh McDowell called "A Ready Defense". The first six chapters of this book became annoyingly redundant in how it showed just how historically accurate the Bible we have today is. In the pre-face, Josh McDowell talked about his life and it turns out that he too was an atheist at one point. He had went completely out of his way to once and for all prove that the Bible was pure fiction and after failing to do so he ended up using all the data he had collected to prove its authoritativeness and became a believer.

[Catsmeow]

What of the starving Africans you speak of ? The whole sale slaughter of those innocents by men who only seek to subjucate? What justice will be served on these men?

I don't believe there will ever be justice for them.

Faithless: How very sad. My heart aches for you. What a horrible existance to live not seeing that justice will be done.

Fortunately for us, we have peace in knowing there IS justice.

[artsylady]

You say you're faithless because you see a lot of bad in the world. Well, surprise -God never promised heaven on earth. In fact, he promised us that there would be another entity at work here on earth seeking to kill, steal and destroy. That's the bad influence in the world. And we humans allowed that bad influence to enter our perfect world. That was our free choice and we decided to allow it here by choosing sin.

However, God has given us instructions on how to combat the bad. He has also commanded that we look after the sick, the poor and the helpless. I once asked a bunch of athiests to name ONE athiest (not secular) organization that actually helps other people - here or abroad. Guess what? They couldn't name a single one. So while there is a lot of bad in the world, a lot of evil in the world, we Christians should be doing everything we can to combat it. Hospitals were started by Christians. Look at the salvation army. Many homeless shelters and soup kitchens are Christian or at least began that way. The underground railroad was run by Christians. Many Christians hid and transported Jews in the holocaust. And the many overseas missions out there helping. Giving up their comfortable lives to help. Many here on this board are, (and you are talking to one -Catsmeow) or have done this. Gone there, been in the trenches, followed God's commands.

Most of us sponser at least one child overseas. I'm sure most of us do service for others free of charge, gladly and willingly because we love our God.

God works through us. As sad and sorry as the state of the world is, God has compassion for those who are poor, meek and sick. Scriptures make it abundantly clear.

There IS justice - maybe not in this lifetime, but in the afterlife there is. Blessed are the meek, the poor and the downtrodden. They will inherit the earth.

[traveller]

Can I ask you what happened that changed your mind so drastically? People always tell me how they changed their minds, but no one ever tells me actually what made them change their mind.

Sir, I know that this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to try to explain to you what it was for me.

It was glorious! the best analogy that i can come up with is that it was like turning on a light, inside of me. Even with the heat of the bulb! It was a grandscale epiphany. There was an awareness that came with it, of many many things. And you know, immediately after this happened, I sat down and opened my bible and began to read. wow. I knew, really knew, what I was reading. It was like I was there in the flesh! I experienced Ezekial and his mountain in a way unlike any other. God's word opened up, like a flower. Really. I have to be honest with you and tell you that it doesn't always happen like that for me now (with the bible reading), but when it does it's because the Holy Spirit is guiding me. Or rather, because I'm listening.

I know this doesn't make any sense to you, but I hope that it will someday. It's like going to a beautiful place and witnessing some spectacular event like a volcano eruption, or a giant waterfall, or a magnificent sunset. You can't make someone experience it, you can try to describe it, but the reality of it is so much more dramatic and awesome.

Now, that was the experience that I felt, but there was more. As time went on, I had less and less desire to do any of my old habits. More and more I wanted to read God's word. And more and more I wanted to share the love of Jesus. the old me died away. I am nothing like I used to be, and that is truly a miracle. And the thing is, I didn't do it. I was created new from within, all I did was learn how to walk my new feet. And I'm still learning how to do that.

Sorry for the long post. I get real excited when this subject comes up.

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

I just wanted to comment and add something to traveller's post. It was a little different for me. Although I had a rough life, I came from a Christian family and I accepted Jesus as a child but I didn't know what I was doing so I don't count it. Anyway, even when I was into the occult, there was something inside me that just could not believe that there was a god and goddess within or a horned god instead of Satan. I tried to believe these false beliefs but I could not. I wanted to delve into these evil things wholeheartedly but couldn't. I ignored that voice for so long and wasted so much time. I'm glad He waited for me!!!