Does God hate sinners

[heresyhunter]

God's hate is the carnal human "hate" that we as humans possess.

Shiloh, I can only assume that you meant to say that God's hate is not the carnal human hate that we as humans possess.

Good post, though.

[Ddavid from NC]

God's hate is the carnal human "hate" that we as humans possess.

Shiloh, I can only assume that you meant to say that God's hate is not the carnal human hate that we as humans possess.

Good post, though.

It should strike fear in your heart when the heresyhunter post behind you. Just kidding!

[Times]

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 KJV

We have all heard and probably all said, "God hates the sin and loves the sinner". Well, what do we do with this verse?

The word hate in the Bible does not mean the same as it does in modern english. In the Bible it means "to love less." so God "Loves all workers of iniquity less."

So Psalm 5:5 could read "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou 'lovest less ' all workers of iniquity.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Times

[Ddavid from NC]

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 KJV

We have all heard and probably all said, "God hates the sin and loves the sinner". Well, what do we do with this verse?

The word hate in the bible does not mean the same as it does in modern english. In the bible it means "to love less." so god "Loves all workers of iniquity less."

So Psalm 5:5 could read "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou 'lovest less ' all workers of iniquity.

Yours is a popular interpretation, so you are in the majority. What we are trying to accomplish in this thread is to prove or disprove your POV. We are not disagreeing with you. I think this is what we would all like to prove. But "abomination" is the strongest word possible that I know of for distaste. It would probably be intersting to pursue its use whether isolated to specific sins or to people. What do you think? Welcome to the discussion Times. I have never had the opportunity to discuss with you that I remember.

[EricH]

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 KJV

We have all heard and probably all said, "God hates the sin and loves the sinner". Well, what do we do with this verse?

God's hate is the carnal human "hate" that we as humans possess. The problem is when we view such an emotion through the carnal lense of humanities own expression of that emotion/attribute.

God loves and hates at the same time, and He does both in perfectly and rightesously. He operates on a level that we cannot relate to, and have no real point of reference to compare it to.

Exactly (insert the word "not" in front of "carnal human")

[Fraught]

Perhaps another thread but viable point to this discussion is one that they wrestle with in all seminaries in their ethics training. "Is evil independent of God totally? Is righteousness independent of God? Or is something righteous because God says it is and is something evil simply because says that it is? Now I know this is like the philosophical question about the tree falling in the woods that nobody saw or heard. But, I believe this is real question. If God hating seems unrighteous, that means we are admitting to a standard independent of God. Which we find no Biblical proof of at all. But, see hints of it being truth in these apparent contradictions. Something to think about.

thank you. that's exactly what i was trying to get at in my post. if God says an act is just, it is. simply because God says it is. i think that as human beings, we have only a foggy concept of justice or even mercy because we are so short-sighted. it's impossible for us to look even a year into the future and be able to see the consequences of our actions. if God is omniscient, and we know he is, then he can see the consequence of every action on every person clear into infinity. if we had that viewpoint, i'm sure His every action would make sense. since we don't, it would be very presumptuous on our parts to question anything.

[Guest winterwind]

If God hated sinners, then He wold not have sent His Son to die for sinners. I see this scripture more as a blanket statement pertaining to the sin that is in the heart of the sinner, as if binding them as one. Are we our sins or are our sins the result of our decisions?

I think if you take Scripture literally (or even Calvin, for that matter), we are sin. Paul wrote of his "body of sin." To suggest that sin is merely a bad decision lessens the value of the Atonement; man doesn't need a Savior, just more knowledge to make a correct decision.

Maybe I should of elaborated a bit more. Sin is the result of the influence of our flesh, known as our sinful nature. We have to remember that Christ died for sinners, not sin. Sin, in and of itself, can not be redeemed nor forgiven as itself, but sinners are redeemed and forgiven of their sins. I separate the two, for when we accept Christ we are believing in Him for salvation, where our sins can not accept His work on the cross.

The question itself requires deep division of His words, way beyond the milk.

I agree here. I am new to this as far as understanding all in the bible but I do think I understand this. God created the earth. God created man. God loves the sinner but God does not love sin. We ALL are God's children and He loves every one of us, even the sinner who maybe reading this right now. God loves you. God gave his only son so that we all may be saved. God gave his son to save us because of our sinful WAYS. Everybody needs to accept Christ so that they can receive the gift God gave which is ever lasting life and to be forgiven for our sins. This doesn't mean we are all perfect and won't sin. If we sin after being saved does that mean that God hates us? No, God hates our sin. We then ask for forgiveness. You can give verses in the bible to understand this but when you have a small child that looks at you and asked these questions you explain it in the simplest way possible. We are all children in God's eyes and the best way to put it out there is simple for all to understand. Not all of us have attend a bible college so we sometimes need it put out there plan and simple. There are also people who have develope a relationship with Christ and in that you get a simple understanding from him. Each person has a stages and you never know what stage a person is in, in their walk. I am just thankful that God loved me as a sinner and always stayed by me like a parent with their child. God kept his door open for me so that one day I might walk through it and again I am thankful for that. Learning everyday with Jesus.

Edited March 19, 2008 by winterwind

[tsth]

Don't you find the context of the issue, explained within the WHOLE portion of the Scriptures? There is more to it, than just "workers of iniquity". It seems to be explained further within the rest of the Word.

Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You. 5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity. 6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

7 But as for me, I will come into Your house in the multitude of Your mercy; In fear of You I will worship toward Your holy temple. 8 Lead me, O Lord, in Your righteousness because of my enemies; Make Your way straight before my face. 9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; Their inward part is destruction; Their throat is an open tomb; They flatter with their tongue. 10 Pronounce them guilty, O God! Let them fall by their own counsels; Cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions, For they have rebelled against You. 11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You. 12 For You, O Lord, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.

Just my 2 cents.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Dear unred,

Well, considering it's God's Word, you're right! I sold that waaaaay short! It's value is indescribable!

I DO find the descriptions in the passages interesting though. I don't think they are what first come to mind in regard to terms we think of in describing wickedness. (The words/terms I bolded in the passages.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Neopatriarch]

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 KJV

We have all heard and probably all said, "God hates the sin and loves the sinner". Well, what do we do with this verse?

We take the verse over the saying.