Rapture

[other one]

So many of the threads on this webboard turn into agruments over when the rapture takes place. \\\

Some believe it happens before the tribulation starts, some think it is at the mid break between the two three and a half year segments and others think it is just before the final battle and a few not at all.

I have a question. Why are we spending so much time with this subject. what will it hurt for someone to believe in the pre-trib rapture if it does not happen before the trib starts. The only down that I see is that it might cause some faith to suffer and we, in my humble openion, should be addressing the faith issue instead of all the infighting over when it happens.f Onthe other side some might not lead the lives they should because they think that Jesus won't come for us before hand, but all know that we could die at any second of the day or night.

So I ask the question: other than possibly loosing faith what difference does it make what I believe about the timing of the rapture???

[Guest phelanfine]

HEY OTHER ONE

It looks like from all the replies, so far, That it don't. NICE FISH. What kind was it?

JESUS is LORD

[RGR]

Frankly, I don't see that it does matter. If I'm wrong on my pre-trib position, I think I'll still know well more than enough of what is going on so as not to take the mark of the beast. I've seen some who would imply that pre-tribbers such as LaHaye and Van Impe would tell us in that occurence that we would be okay to take the mark since it wouldn't be the mark actually! :oww: Not quite sure I get that one!!!

I think most here are more than willing to agree to disagree, but there are those who think that the pre-trib notion is a lie hatched out of Hell itself and stop just short of saying you're not saved if you believe in pre-trib. Last time I checked, the timing of the rapture WAS NOT a prerequisite for salvation!!!

[Guest LadyC]

it doesn't. the rapture is going to happen, and the question of when can only be answered (for now) theoretically. while the question of when is often hotly debated here, i find it very disheartening to read accusations of heresy by proponents of one theory over another. i certainly hope those accusations don't get slung about in your thread. there's enough of it in the eschatology forums to last a lifetime, and then some.

[other one]

HEY OTHER ONE

It looks like from all the replies, so far, That it don't. NICE FISH. What kind was it?

JESUS is LORD

it is an arkansas bass if my memory serves me correctly.

My sister and brother-in-law live in arkansas an we are in oklahoma, so he tells me that there is a big difference in the fish in ark.

So I'll have to say it is an arkbass. Mostly we catch Okiebasses closer to home.

My wife uses live worms and gets hits from really big okiecarp and catfish.

Catfish are just catfish no matter where you catch the nasty things..l....

Sam

[Guest LCPGUY]

Sam,

you are correct. It really doesn't matter.

But when pre-tribbers get accused of not reading the scriptures and believing a lie and are heretics, merely followers of men, we defend ourselves. Hopefully with some degree of civility.

If the discussions could take place without personal attacks and insults, that would be wonderful.

Bro John

[RGR]

If the discussions could take place without personal attacks and insults, that would be wonderful.

I've said it before and I'll say it again-is this what we want the world to see of professing Christians? Calling one another liars and saying we follow men and not God is not what the world needs to see!!!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Other One,

Some believe it happens before the tribulation starts, some think it is at the mid break between the two three and a half year segments and others think it is just before the final battle and a few not at all.

I have a question. Why are we spending so much time with this subject. what will it hurt for someone to believe in the pre-trib rapture if it does not happen before the trib starts. The only down that I see is that it might cause some faith to suffer and we, in my humble openion, should be addressing the faith issue instead of all the infighting over when it happens.f Onthe other side some might not lead the lives they should because they think that Jesus won't come for us before hand, but all know that we could die at any second of the day or night.

So I ask the question: other than possibly loosing faith what difference does it make what I believe about the timing of the rapture???

Out of curiousity, why is anything relating to eschatology (including the rapture) posted in this forum instead of the "appropriate" forum of Eschatology? Then those who would rather ignor eschatology wouldn't have to put up with the strong opinions expressed by both or (all) sides of the eschatological argument.

NOW BEFORE YOU JUST GAFF THIS MESSAGE OFF "OTHER ONE", please take the time to read it, since you and others seem to need an answer to a question, which I will attempt to give you:

First:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

So what you say, the Gospel means believing in Jesus Christ!

My brother, even demons believe:

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

A study of the NT, reveals that the WHOLE Gospel consists of the following:

1) The Birth of Jesus Christ

2) The Life of Jesus Christ

3) The Death of Jesus Christ

4) The Resurrection of Jesus Christ

5) The Coming Again of Jesus Christ.

If you do not understand or you diminish any of these, especially when teaching others about the Gospel, then you do serious jeopardy to it and them.

Why "eschatology", let's look at what Paul says:

1 Cor 15:12-25 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Now just in those few short verses, how many BLUE references are there WHICH PERTAIN TO ESCHATOLOGY?

As you might have noticed the verse in RED, do you see that Paul is saying that IF the Lord doesn't come back for His saints, and IF there is NO resurrection, then OUR BLESSED HOPE means nothing.

My point being is that the Lord's 2nd coming is just as important as the REST of the 5 points of the Gospel I listed above.

Okay, you say, so why the endless debate over pre, mid or post or Amil or premil or whatever?

Would you disagree with someone who believe the resurrection/rapture and the New Kingdom of God come down from heaven already occured in 70 A.D.? I am speaking specifically of the "full Preterist". The amilllinealist is almost as bad as the full preterist and the partial preterist.

Would you disagree with those who think "we shall become Gods"? That we will inherit our own planet to rule over one of these days? Well that is what the Mormons believe?

Several years ago now, I left pre-tribbism and found that the scriptures ONLY support a post-trib, pre-wrath rapture position, and the RAPTURE is NOT even what most of the prophetic scripture is about. It is MAINLY about the "resurrection" of those who have died and are resurrected at the Lord's 2nd coming. The "rapture" is actually intended for only a very few (those who are alive and remain) - a remnant. So what is all this hoopla about the "Left Behind" series? It is pure fable, pure fiction and yet we see so many have bought into it AND IT IS A LIE!

Now you wonder why I argue against pre, mid, and amil, postmill, preterism so much. Let me be real terse with this answer:

BECAUSE THE GOSPEL IS "GOD'S POWER UNTO SALVATION", and to have any part of it wrong CAN do great harm to the Message of Jesus Christ.

Case in point is the "taking of the Mark of the Beast". Do you realize that those who are ADAMANTLY pre-trib are going to take the Mark of the Beast? When the time it becomes essential, the pre-tribber is going to say: "Nah, that aint it, because Christians are going up in the rapture LONG BEFORE it even comes about."

I think you are old enough to understand, that taking the "mark" under that "mind set", is almost a certain event.

SO!!! Whenever I can, I hope to pull at least a few from the fire which they WILL be facing, because MOST of the pre-tribbers WILL take that Mark. I certainly AM NOT going to lie to them and tell them NOT TO WORRY, God is going to RAPTURE us out before that happens.

I am also NOT GOING TO LIE TO THEM and tell them they will NOT have to go through a very GREAT TRIBULATION, if they are alive at the end of the age. I yell at them, I plead with them, PREPARE FOR PERSECUTION - FOR IT IS DEFINATELY COMING. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE RAPTURED BEFORE IT HAPPENS, AND IN ALL LIKLIHOOD, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE AT THE HANDS OF THE BEAST!

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

So, do you now have a clue, why I persist in arguing AGAINST that most hideous doctrine? Hey, if I am wrong, I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, I will be prepared for persecution and even death. BUT, IF I AM RIGHT, THE PRETRIBBER STANDS TO LOSE HIS VERY OWN SOUL.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[RGR]

BUT, IF I AM RIGHT, THE PRETRIBBER STANDS TO LOSE HIS VERY OWN SOUL.

Pure Arkansas Baloney!!!! If I am wrong, as I stated before, the Bible gives me enough info to recognize who the AntiChrist is and to steer away from him. But to hear you tell it, Jack and Tim will be standing there helping to administer the mark to people as they are the secret agents of the AntiChrist already at work. Give me a break!

[Marilyn777]

Frankly, I don't see that it does matter. 

  Last time I checked, the timing of the rapture WAS NOT a prerequisite for salvation!!!

I think you are absolutely correct Ron, that it is not a prerequisite for Salvation.

But we are in a controversial room and there isn't much that is as controversial a topic as this one. And there is nothing wrong with some good old fashioned debating, but unfortunately some of us are taking it way too personal and getting their backs up and want everyone to believe what they believe. Which if one was to be honest with ones self as long as our hearts belong to Jesus and we are confident of our salvation it doesn't really matter if we go pre-mid or post. But I do like the challenge of trying to scripturely present my case for pre-trib. As long as the there is no name calling or telling someone that they are going to hell because they believe one thing and not another is just plain uncalled for and unscriptural. Nothing turns people off quicker then someone who pushes their opinion to the limit at the cost of some one else' feelings and beliefs. As long as the fundamentals like Salvation, His Commandments, His teachings are not trifled with topics like the Rapture are still open for debate.