creeds

[WayneB]

Hi,

It has been brought to my attention more than a few times that to be a full christian and to be in the body of Christ one must adhere to at least one of the 'creed'. I cannot find any biblical reasoning for this. It almost seems like joining a club. I firmly believe that reciting a creed doesn't have anything to do with my salvation but there are many who have told me different. Not here by the way. My faith and trust are firmly in God and that Christ lived, was crucified and rose from the dead, He is my saviour and king isn't this enough? Sometimes it seems to me that many 'religions' make things so hard, so many rules etc. Am I way off? Thanks

Actually, creedal statements go all the way back to the NT church. "Jesus is Lord" was probably the very first creedal statement recited by the early believers. The reason creeds, like the Apostle's Creed, for example, came into being was because in the early centuries of Christianity the average church member didn't read and certainly didn't have a Bible (there were no printing presses), so creeds became a way succinctly witness and share the faith. Like everything else, if a creed is recited mindlessly, it means nothing.

So, don't be too hard on creeds; they can be very good and useful, provided they are founded on the Word of G-d. But, man has a way of making things more complicated than they ought to be, you are right about that.

Good explanation and right on the money. A valid and true creed is simply a statement of belief and fact. It does not save; it testifies.

One of the earliest creeds that was passed around word of mouth and then written down by Paul in his 1st letter to the Church in Corinth is found in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8...

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

Paul took what he knew to be TRUTH and added his own testimony to it and hence...the first known creed. Nothing wrong with that...it is Scripture.

[mizzdy]

Hi,

<<There is no magic formula in reciting the Christian Creeds. All that they are is a summary of what biblical Christians believe in a nutshell. They have been very very useful in fighting heresy over the past 2000 years, but there is nothing inherent for your salvation in reciting them. The key is having a sound belief and faith and I do think that if you disagree with the Creeds there could be a major problem in the doctrine that you hold. All the Creeds are is a nice summary of what Christians believe.>>

Well I am not sure I have a doctrine other than Christ lived was crucified and died for my sins. Hmmm then again we all come with some type of learning or baggage of some sorts. I do not attend a church but have study tools and the like. I do listen to some teachers on the net but do my own studies on what I hear and always pray for understanding. So in some ways you are right that that we all have some types of doctrine in each of us. I think that one of the problems with at least one of the creeds is that I must recognize A church and it was brought to my attention that it is the catholic church that I do have a problem with. Not the catholic church perse it is that I must recognize one and that begs the question, which one. But I don't want to get into which church is right since I do not believe there is ONE right church that there is believers and the saved in all churches.

<<I recite the Creeds as a way of having unity with other Christian believers and with my own congregation, not because they have anything to do with salvation.>>

Like a secret handshake. no offences meant!! I am glad to hear that creeds don't have anything to do with salvation. Thanks.

[Guest man]

Man,

<<Most of christianity today is nothing more than Scribes and Pharisees.>>

It certainly seems to be going that way more and more these days. The many atheist will point out that christianity or rather religion is always at odds with itself and that in their minds there is no difference between the two. I am no atheist yet I can relate to what they are saying about this issue.

That's one of the reasons I won't debate religion with an atheist....they make too much sense when it comes to issues of the church.

[stan4257]

I firmly believe that reciting a creed doesn't have anything to do with my salvation

One of the big benefits of Worthy Boards is that so many different points of view are held, and one of its disadvantages is that it is often difficult to express a personal opinion without offending somebody and being chided for so doing.

Well, on what you say I agree entirely, even though I have followed this thread carefully and appreciated and considered all the many useful suggestions.

As a born again teenager a chorus we sang often went something like, if I remember it correctly:

Living he loved me.

Dying he saved me.

Buried he carried my sins far away.

Rising he justified

freely for ever.

One day he's coming.

O glorious day.

With the exception of the penultimate line which I now think of as: 'one day I'll meet him', that chorus is still my creed, should I ever think one is needed.

It occurs also to me that in the Baptist Church in which I grew up we never said a creed anyway.

I notice that you have some strong support on this thread. Please accept mine also.

[Smalcald]

The...

[Smalcald]

Hi,

<<There is no magic formula in reciting the Christian Creeds. All that they are is a summary of what biblical Christians believe in a nutshell. They have been very very useful in fighting heresy over the past 2000 years, but there is nothing inherent for your salvation in reciting them. The key is having a sound belief and faith and I do think that if you disagree with the Creeds there could be a major problem in the doctrine that you hold. All the Creeds are is a nice summary of what Christians believe.>>

Well I am not sure I have a doctrine other than Christ lived was crucified and died for my sins. Hmmm then again we all come with some type of learning or baggage of some sorts. I do not attend a church but have study tools and the like. I do listen to some teachers on the net but do my own studies on what I hear and always pray for understanding. So in some ways you are right that that we all have some types of doctrine in each of us. I think that one of the problems with at least one of the creeds is that I must recognize A church and it was brought to my attention that it is the catholic church that I do have a problem with. Not the catholic church perse it is that I must recognize one and that begs the question, which one. But I don't want to get into which church is right since I do not believe there is ONE right church that there is believers and the saved in all churches.

<<I recite the Creeds as a way of having unity with other Christian believers and with my own congregation, not because they have anything to do with salvation.>>

Like a secret handshake. no offences meant!! I am glad to hear that creeds don't have anything to do with salvation. Thanks.

But do you know who Christ is? (Rhetorical question I know that you do).

What I mean is so what if a guy named Jesus died for you sins? John the Baptist died also. The question is do you believe He rose from the dead in the Body? Do you believe that He is God a part of the Trinity? Do you see what I mean, saying that you believe Jesus died for your sins is meaningless without a resurrection, without knowing why He died for your sins and so forth, and knowing who He really is. Muslims and Mormons believe in Jesus also, they believe He rose to heaven and will save people also, but they are not Christians.

Doctrine is important. More heresy is now being preached from those who claim they are bible believing Christians than anywhere else.

[Smalcald]

There is no such thing. Creeds are catholic and religious.

What do you mean?

If we don't know who Jesus is, then how can we worship someone we don't know? The Christian Creed's simply say who Jesus is, what they do is simply provide a nice summary of very important biblical points about the essentials of what we believe. I mean look at the Mormons. They read the bible, they claim to be bible believing Christians, yet they believe Jesus is not divine, that He is the product of some sort of celestial sexual union, it is really really weird stuff, and they don

[Smalcald]

Worthy Statement of Faith:

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit -- the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God's only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose again. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.

We believe all mankind are sinful and are therefore subject to God

[eric]

I agree with Marnie and Wayne. It is a statement of faith and what you personally believe . Reciting it publically won't help you, but denying it could cause you some strife.......eternally speaking......that is.

[Ovedya]

Creeds are not at all necessary.