Question regarding age of universe & light from distant stars

[Guest *Angelus*]

If God can change the laws at any time He sees fit, then they aren't that constant are they? So they're only constant when God chooses them to be? That doesn't lead to a lot of reproducilbe experiments.

Reproducible by....God? Or science? Let me put it this way; God wrote the physical laws that govern the universe. If He chooses to suspend those laws, for His own reasons, we're going to have to live with it. Such things come under the heading of miracles and are not dissectable in a laboratory or suitable for chemical analysis. But the laws are constant, just as He is. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

What we're observing, when witnessing a "miracle" or any other supernatural event, is simply an exercise by God of physical laws that we are, as yet, either unaware of, or lack the knowledge of how to manipulate. All supernatural events only remain supernatural, by definition, until we gain an understanding of the natural laws of the universe governing them and, thru further discovery, how to manipulate those laws. Does that make a miracle any less so? Absolutely not! God remains sovereign throughout, for He is the Creator of, and the Power behind, these natural universal laws and the manipulation thereof.

The wonderful and great I AM suffers no insecurities about His creation and power, and encourages us to pursue the knowledge of Him thru our efforts to understand His creation. Further, He invites us, thru a relationship with His Son, Jesus Christ, to share in His power, as co-inheritors to the entire Kingdom of God.

You don't really think we're gonna be sittin' on our duffs, strummin' harps for all eternity, do ya?...

As always, submitted for your consideration,

In His Love,

*Angelus*

[Gerioke]

If God can change the laws at any time He sees fit, then they aren't that constant are they? So they're only constant when God chooses them to be? That doesn't lead to a lot of reproducilbe experiments.

Reproducible by....God? Or science? Let me put it this way; God wrote the physical laws that govern the universe. If He chooses to suspend those laws, for His own reasons, we're going to have to live with it. Such things come under the heading of miracles and are not dissectable in a laboratory or suitable for chemical analysis. But the laws are constant, just as He is. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

What we're observing, when witnessing a "miracle" or any other supernatural event, is simply an exercise by God of physical laws that we are, as yet, either unaware of, or lack the knowledge of how to manipulate. All supernatural events only remain supernatural, by definition, until we gain an understanding of the natural laws of the universe governing them and, thru further discovery, how to manipulate those laws. Does that make a miracle any less so? Absolutely not! God remains sovereign throughout, for He is the Creator of, and the Power behind, these natural universal laws and the manipulation thereof.

The wonderful and great I AM suffers no insecurities about His creation and power, and encourages us to pursue the knowledge of Him thru our efforts to understand His creation. Further, He invites us, thru a relationship with His Son, Jesus Christ, to share in His power, as co-inheritors to the entire Kingdom of God.

You don't really think we're gonna be sittin' on our duffs, strummin' harps for all eternity, do ya?...

As always, submitted for your consideration,

In His Love,

*Angelus*

Yes, I can consider this.

[Gerioke]

This is probably why mosts scientist do not like God. He discredits their profession.

That makes for a funny joke, Gerioke, but I'm curious: Do you really think most scientists do not like God?

I work in the life sciences and I LOVE God. Science helps me appreciate God and the genius of His Creation. Now, I know a lot of my colleagues don't believe in God, but I can't think of ANY that dis-like him. Either you don't know God, or you know God and love Him.

I think anybody who denies the obvious has a dislike for it. If you listen carefully, the way athiests talk about God, you will notice that they address Him as if He's real but deny His existance.

Pride in action.

So every time an atheist references god, you expect them to say, "hypothetically assuming god exists" or call him "supposed god"? If you were discussing a fictional character from TV like Dr House, you wouldn't reference him by saying "the fictional character known as Dr House", you'd just call him House. This doesn't imply that you believe in House's existence, does it?

If God were a fictional TV character, you might have a good point.

[MorningGlory]

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

So you're saying that the temporary suspension was the Lord exercising physical laws that we are not aware of? I'm referring to the passage below:

Joshua 10:13 (New International Version)

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

[Gerioke]

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

So you're saying that the temporary suspension was the Lord exercising physical laws that we are not aware of? I'm referring to the passage below:

Joshua 10:13 (New International Version)

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

I'm sure there are a lot of natural occurances that we are not yet aware of. I never heard of el nino or la nina until the 90s, yet they are supposed to be cyclical. It took man over 1800 years to figure out that there were microwaves, radio waves and such. Perhaps there was a space anomoly that caused the planet to appear stationary to the sun???

[mikeinsarasota]

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

So you're saying that the temporary suspension was the Lord exercising physical laws that we are not aware of? I'm referring to the passage below:

Joshua 10:13 (New International Version)

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

I'm sure there are a lot of natural occurances that we are not yet aware of. I never heard of el nino or la nina until the 90s, yet they are supposed to be cyclical. It took man over 1800 years to figure out that there were microwaves, radio waves and such. Perhaps there was a space anomoly that caused the planet to appear stationary to the sun???

What evidence do you have to support your explanation?

[mikeinsarasota]

If God can change the laws at any time He sees fit, then they aren't that constant are they? So they're only constant when God chooses them to be? That doesn't lead to a lot of reproducilbe experiments.

Reproducible by....God? Or science? Let me put it this way; God wrote the physical laws that govern the universe. If He chooses to suspend those laws, for His own reasons, we're going to have to live with it. Such things come under the heading of miracles and are not dissectable in a laboratory or suitable for chemical analysis. But the laws are constant, just as He is. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

What we're observing, when witnessing a "miracle" or any other supernatural event, is simply an exercise by God of physical laws that we are, as yet, either unaware of, or lack the knowledge of how to manipulate. All supernatural events only remain supernatural, by definition, until we gain an understanding of the natural laws of the universe governing them and, thru further discovery, how to manipulate those laws. Does that make a miracle any less so? Absolutely not! God remains sovereign throughout, for He is the Creator of, and the Power behind, these natural universal laws and the manipulation thereof.

The wonderful and great I AM suffers no insecurities about His creation and power, and encourages us to pursue the knowledge of Him thru our efforts to understand His creation. Further, He invites us, thru a relationship with His Son, Jesus Christ, to share in His power, as co-inheritors to the entire Kingdom of God.

You don't really think we're gonna be sittin' on our duffs, strummin' harps for all eternity, do ya?...

As always, submitted for your consideration,

In His Love,

*Angelus*

I agree that there are many, as of yet, undiscovered physical laws. But to say these laws are the only explanation for the things we read in the Bible is a bit like gambling. If these things really are a part of nature then they accesible in a laboratory, and we are then relying on science to validate the Bible.

[mikeinsarasota]

If God can change the laws at any time He sees fit, then they aren't that constant are they? So they're only constant when God chooses them to be? That doesn't lead to a lot of reproducilbe experiments.

Reproducible by....God? Or science? Let me put it this way; God wrote the physical laws that govern the universe. If He chooses to suspend those laws, for His own reasons, we're going to have to live with it. Such things come under the heading of miracles and are not dissectable in a laboratory or suitable for chemical analysis. But the laws are constant, just as He is. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Do you understand what constant means? If something is the same, same, same, same, NOT the same, it is NOT constant.

[Gerioke]

OK... The subject has gotten a little off track, but I just gotta...

First, the assumption that God "changes", "suspends", or in essence "breaks" the laws of the universe that He created in order to affect a "miracle" is flawed from the start. God, by His own definition and word, says that such an act on His part would cause Him to cease to be God.

So you're saying that the temporary suspension was the Lord exercising physical laws that we are not aware of? I'm referring to the passage below:

Joshua 10:13 (New International Version)

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

I'm sure there are a lot of natural occurances that we are not yet aware of. I never heard of el nino or la nina until the 90s, yet they are supposed to be cyclical. It took man over 1800 years to figure out that there were microwaves, radio waves and such. Perhaps there was a space anomoly that caused the planet to appear stationary to the sun???

What evidence do you have to support your explanation?

If I had evidence of these occurances then we would be aware of them, would we not? What evidence do you have that there's no such thing as Santa Claus?

[heresyhunter]

Gerioke,

First let me apologize for publically questioning whether or not you are a troll.

Secondly, let's go back to the tree rings. Yes, we presently observe tree rings forming anually. From this, we can deduce that certain trees are thousands of years old. Similarly, we presently observe a steady rate of decay of radioactive material. From this, we can deduce that the universe is in fact billions of years old. Thus, your argument that scientists are unable to know the age of the universe simply because no one was there in the distant past to observe its antiquity must be dimissed.