What About Belief?

[exrockstar]

So if you lay hold of this opportunity to prove your love and faith in God, does that mean you can boast that you earned eternal life? Did you buy your own mansion in heaven? How much did that cost? Did it come furnished? Was it worth allllll that effort and time? Hmmmn

[stacey c]

I will have to agree on some issues on both sides of this debate. The rest of God is for today. But it is not what happens just after we are saved. There are many levels of true faith in our christian walk. The FIRST step of faith is at salvation. That I believe is the easiest step of faith to come by. When someone asks you how do you know that your saved we can answer from a deep assurance that "We know that we know," how? Because the Bible gives us the way to savation and we believe it. Salvation is the first promise of God given to us in the word. Did you know that Abraham is the father of our faith? So all the promises of our fathers in the ot are made available to us today. There are over 10,000 promises that God has given us in the Word. I.E. Duet. 8 : 18 "But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God; for it is he that GIVETH thee the power to get wealth, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH HIS COVENANT WHICH HE SWARE UNTO THY FATHERS, AS IT IS THIS DAY." that is just one. You can look up allthese promises. How do we obtain these promises is by looking to our father Abraham who did not stagger under the promise of God. When we are told to enter into His rest and cease our works He isnot talking about salvation. But when we are believing God to act in our behalf of a promise we come to a place in our faith in that one particular area that we know that its in God's hands. Def. of faith, is the absolute total conviction about the truth of anything. James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience." V> 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." >7 For let not that man think he shall recieve any thing of the Lord." So entering into His rest is what we do when we know that we know that God will work what He has promised and we are standing on that promise. It is not a case of smooth sailing from the day of my salvation. Faith without works is dead. James 2:20. James 2:24 " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." I hope I have enlightened some of the truth of entering into rest. But please study it for yourself in the word, everything must be backed up by scripture.

[Smalcald]

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

[jackie d]

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

[stacey c]

Amen, smalcad. I think this is leaning too dangerously to one side or the other. The Bible says that God FLEES the prideful. I do not think we should live in constant fear of going to hell. I think if we live in a continual state of unrepented sin, the state of that sinfulness will cause us to walk away from the Father. But those who are true sons of God will follow after Him. I believe if for what ever reason I am gone tomorrow, I know that I am in personal relationship with my Savior, I have no fear. Even though I know I am not perfect. But to walk day after day in a state of continual unrepented sin, As in I continue to sin and live as I see fit, even though at one point I had a personal relationship with Him, the Bible says I would have left my first love. To those I would say repent, thank you Jesus for Grace and Mercy. Def. Grace - undeserved favor. It's not so much the sin of the flesh, because we are human and sinful, but it's the state of our heart.

[OneLight]

We should also remember Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You

Not everyone who says to Me,

[ALTACALL]

Amen, smalcad. I think this is leaning too dangerously to one side or the other. The Bible says that God FLEES the prideful. I do not think we should live in constant fear of going to hell. I think if we live in a continual state of unrepented sin, the state of that sinfulness will cause us to walk away from the Father. But those who are true sons of God will follow after Him. I believe if for what ever reason I am gone tomorrow, I know that I am in personal relationship with my Savior, I have no fear. Even though I know I am not perfect. But to walk day after day in a state of continual unrepented sin, As in I continue to sin and live as I see fit, even though at one point I had a personal relationship with Him, the Bible says I would have left my first love. To those I would say repent, thank you Jesus for Grace and Mercy. Def. Grace - undeserved favor. It's not so much the sin of the flesh, because we are human and sinful, but it's the state of our heart.

I WILL NOT QUOTE SCRIPTURE AS I CAN NOT, BUT I KNOW THAT SOME OTHER VERSE CAN OFF SET IT. i AGREE THAT THIS TOPIC IS GOING WAY DEEPER THAN NESESSARY. JESUS DID SAY THAT IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY ME. FAITH AND BELIEF CAN BE THE SAME AND DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME. SAMPLE, I CAN BELIEVE GOD CAN HEAL BUT NOT BELIEVE HE WILL. I TOTALY AGREE THAT IT WOULD TAKE HABITUAL WILLFUL SIN TO GET SOMEONE IN REAL TROUBLE. REMEMBER, NOT ALL WHO CLAIM TO BE SAVED ARE. WORKS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO FOR GOD BUT HOW YOU REPRESENT GOD ACCORDING TO PAUL IN ROMANS. I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

[OneLight]

Amen, smalcad. I think this is leaning too dangerously to one side or the other. The Bible says that God FLEES the prideful. I do not think we should live in constant fear of going to hell. I think if we live in a continual state of unrepented sin, the state of that sinfulness will cause us to walk away from the Father. But those who are true sons of God will follow after Him. I believe if for what ever reason I am gone tomorrow, I know that I am in personal relationship with my Savior, I have no fear. Even though I know I am not perfect. But to walk day after day in a state of continual unrepented sin, As in I continue to sin and live as I see fit, even though at one point I had a personal relationship with Him, the Bible says I would have left my first love. To those I would say repent, thank you Jesus for Grace and Mercy. Def. Grace - undeserved favor. It's not so much the sin of the flesh, because we are human and sinful, but it's the state of our heart.

I WILL NOT QUOTE SCRIPTURE AS I CAN NOT, BUT I KNOW THAT SOME OTHER VERSE CAN OFF SET IT. i AGREE THAT THIS TOPIC IS GOING WAY DEEPER THAN NESESSARY. JESUS DID SAY THAT IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY ME. FAITH AND BELIEF CAN BE THE SAME AND DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME. SAMPLE, I CAN BELIEVE GOD CAN HEAL BUT NOT BELIEVE HE WILL. I TOTALY AGREE THAT IT WOULD TAKE HABITUAL WILLFUL SIN TO GET SOMEONE IN REAL TROUBLE. REMEMBER, NOT ALL WHO CLAIM TO BE SAVED ARE. WORKS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO FOR GOD BUT HOW YOU REPRESENT GOD ACCORDING TO PAUL IN ROMANS. I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

Welcome ALTACALL ... please turn off your caps.

[stacey c]

Amen, smalcad. I think this is leaning too dangerously to one side or the other. The Bible says that God FLEES the prideful. I do not think we should live in constant fear of going to hell. I think if we live in a continual state of unrepented sin, the state of that sinfulness will cause us to walk away from the Father. But those who are true sons of God will follow after Him. I believe if for what ever reason I am gone tomorrow, I know that I am in personal relationship with my Savior, I have no fear. Even though I know I am not perfect. But to walk day after day in a state of continual unrepented sin, As in I continue to sin and live as I see fit, even though at one point I had a personal relationship with Him, the Bible says I would have left my first love. To those I would say repent, thank you Jesus for Grace and Mercy. Def. Grace - undeserved favor. It's not so much the sin of the flesh, because we are human and sinful, but it's the state of our heart.

I WILL NOT QUOTE SCRIPTURE AS I CAN NOT, BUT I KNOW THAT SOME OTHER VERSE CAN OFF SET IT. i AGREE THAT THIS TOPIC IS GOING WAY DEEPER THAN NESESSARY. JESUS DID SAY THAT IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY ME. FAITH AND BELIEF CAN BE THE SAME AND DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME. SAMPLE, I CAN BELIEVE GOD CAN HEAL BUT NOT BELIEVE HE WILL. I TOTALY AGREE THAT IT WOULD TAKE HABITUAL WILLFUL SIN TO GET SOMEONE IN REAL TROUBLE. REMEMBER, NOT ALL WHO CLAIM TO BE SAVED ARE. WORKS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO FOR GOD BUT HOW YOU REPRESENT GOD ACCORDING TO PAUL IN ROMANS. I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

Actually Altacall I am not confused at all about works of faith and works of man. I have know those who claim to be saved and are not. "We shall know them by their fruit." Jesus stated that those who due all according to the LAW are like "White washed selpchulars. full of dead mens bones." We are in agreement what it means to due works in faith. But once I become saved it's not the end of my responsibility. When we ask Jesus into our hearts we are going into covenant with Him. He has promised to forgive us of our sins and we will be with Him in paradise. My roll in this covenant is to follow after Him, to endure til the end lest my Soul fall back into perdition. Jesus will never break our covenant because He is not a liar, but I could break that covenant by not doing what is asked of me. The scriptures are full of what we need to do to stay in relationship with Him. Not of works lest any man shall boast, but of faith that He shall do what He has promised. I hope I made my understanding clear, as in sometimes I have a difficult time expressing what I mean. God bless you friend and welcome to Worthy Boards

[deut31:12]

all one has to do is read Hebrews 3 and 4 and see how Paul says. That "rest" is acheived here in our lifetime and not after in death.

This "rest" is not heaven nor anything given to us after death.

You believe today and get paid today NOT when you die.

This is incorrect.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. - Hebrews 4:9-11

Our works is just our obedience to the gospel of Christ.

Paul gave us a good example of how it is done.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

The course that Paul is saying that he has finished is the works and labor under the gospel of Christ that he did. He fought the good fight and is now ready to enter into the rest that God has prepared for him, which is not to Paul only, but to all them also that love his appearing.

Also, our "works" is our fight in fighting the good fight that Paul spoke of.

Since Paul is speaking of receiving the crown of righteousness "at that day", it is not "believe today and get paid today".