polygamist sect hearing in texas decends into farce

[Rick-Parker]

What happened to freedom and rights (innocent until PROVEN guilty?)

What about the rights of the children not to have to marry old men when they are 13? That's rape. But, the judge ordered DNA on everyone, so soon everyone will know what is going on there. And not all the fathers are reporting for DNA swabs. I wonder why? Perhaps because it will prove that the are having sex with children. Defend that.

[faith pleases God]

What happened to freedom and rights (innocent until PROVEN guilty?)

What about the rights of the children not to have to marry old men when they are 13? That's rape. But, the judge ordered DNA on everyone, so soon everyone will know what is going on there. And not all the fathers are reporting for DNA swabs. I wonder why? Perhaps because it will prove that the are having sex with children. Defend that.

You're all over it, but where are you at? That's why we have judges and juries. Perhaps it won't prove it. Perhaps it will. America is being trampled upon for ideals like yours but founded upon ideals like mine (and you think you're right?) . Defend that?

I'm debating freedom vs. communism with you guys and you guys have no idea or at least in this regard are communists. Hey but everyone has freedom to believe (at least now).

[redwing]

lastest e-mail from my daughter-in-law;

dad;

I think it is going to get to expensive and they will not be able to place all of the children so they will send them back to the compound. My boss said the lawyers are working this case for free. If this black girl did make a false report it worked

[refugepsa91]

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

[Guest]

[JustinM]

No one here is defending what went on in that compound. But, we are defending the US Constitution and Ammendments 4-6 respectively. The State invaded that compound with nothing but an anonymous and unverified tip as their evidence. Can't you see the problem with that? What if the next anonymous tip causes the raid on your church Sunday morning and the state/government arrests everyone there on similar suspicions?

It is a very dangerous precedent. 1 phony phone call ripped apart dozens of families. That is a lot of power, the State should only be able to use under the most certain circumstances. A phone call, should not have been sufficient enough for the state to do what it did. Photos, video, substantial proof and not circumstantial should be the criteria for those types of raids.

Our church could be next.

[Rick-Parker]

Why is it always the criminals and their rights who are worried about. What about the rights of the victims? Cruel and unusual treatment? What about the victims and their cruel and unusual treatment? Rape is rape. What about those girls? And all children? How do you propose to protect them from predators? It's alway my rights, my rights, me, me me..........Aren't y'all sick of it?

Defending criminals over the innocent using the Constitution is what I talking about. Our Constitution was meant to protect both the guilty and the innocent, but now it protects criminals over victims. Where is the justice?

FPG and JustinM, I don't see one word from you about the poor victims (the children if you don't know)? Where is your concern for them? Your only voiced concern is for the rights of the criminal-perverts.

I'm not worried about "the man" coming to my church. My church doesn't participate in felonious activities. That's just paranoia.

I'm not trying to offend either of you, and I pray I haven't. Have a good day.

God bless.

[faith pleases God]

No one here is defending what went on in that compound. But, we are defending the US Constitution and Ammendments 4-6 respectively. The State invaded that compound with nothing but an anonymous and unverified tip as their evidence. Can't you see the problem with that? What if the next anonymous tip causes the raid on your church Sunday morning and the state/government arrests everyone there on similar suspicions?

It is a very dangerous precedent. 1 phony phone call ripped apart dozens of families. That is a lot of power, the State should only be able to use under the most certain circumstances. A phone call, should not have been sufficient enough for the state to do what it did. Photos, video, substantial proof and not circumstantial should be the criteria for those types of raids.

Our church could be next.

[His_Own]

INFANT DISCOVERED IN BARN; CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES LAUNCH PROBE

Nazareth Carpenter Being Held On Charges Involving Underage Mother

Bethlehem, Judea - Authorities were today alerted by a concerned citizen who noticed a family living in a barn. Upon arrival, Family Protective Service personnel, accompanied by police, took into protective care an infant child named Jesus, who had been wrapped in strips of cloth and placed in a feeding trough by his 14-year old mother, Mary of Nazareth.

During the confrontation, a man identified as Joseph, also of Nazareth , attempted to stop the social workers. Joseph, aided by several local shepherds and some unidentified foreigners, tried to forestall efforts to take the child, but were restrained by the police.

Also being held for questioning are three foreigners who allege to be wise men from an eastern country. The INS and Homeland Security officials are seeking information about these who may be in the country illegally. A source with the INS states that they had no passports, but were in possession of gold and other possibly illegal substances. They resisted arrest saying that they had been warned by God to avoid officials in Jerusalem and to return quickly to their own country. The chemical substances in their possession will be tested.

The owner of the barn is also being held for questioning. The manager of Bethlehem Inn faces possible revocation of his license for violating health and safety regulations by allowing people to stay in the stable. Civil authorities are also investigating the zoning violations involved in maintaining livestock in a commercially-zoned district.

The location of the minor child will not be released, and the prospect for a quick resolution to this case is doubtful. Asked about when Jesus would be returned to his mother, a Child Protective Service spokesperson said, "The father is middle-aged and the mother definitely underage. We are checking with officials in Nazareth to determine what their legal relationship is.

Joseph has admitted taking Mary from her home in Nazareth because of a census requirement. However, because she was obviously pregnant when they left, investigators are looking into other reasons for their departure. Joseph is being held without bond on charges of molestation, kidnapping, child endangerment, and statutory rape.

Mary was taken to the Bethlehem General Hospital where she is being examined by doctors. Charges may also be filed against her for endangerment. She will also undergo psychiatric evaluation because of her claim that she is a virgin and that the child is from God.

The director of the psychiatric wing said, "I don't profess to have the right to tell people what to believe, but when their beliefs adversely affect the safety and well-being of others - in this case her child - we must consider her a danger to others. The unidentified drugs at the scene didn't help her case, but I'm confidant that with the proper therapy regimen we can get her back on her feet."

A spokesperson for the governor's office said, "Who knows what was going through their heads? But regardless, their treatment of the child was inexcusable, and the involvement of these others frightening. There is much we don't know about this case, but for the sake of the child and the public, you can be assured that we will pursue this matter to the end."

Edit:

This email made the rounds several years ago. At the time, it was clearly making the statement that our government should abide by its constitutional limits. In this (what we once considered an overly extreme - but now it has been multiplied by over 400) case, the "government" would have indeed overstepped its bounds, invading privacy, splitting up families, making accusations without proof, guilty until proven innocent, holding innocents without cause all because of one call from one who knew nothing of the situation.

Edited April 24, 2008 by His_Own

[Merin]

why is it so bad?