Once saved always saved?

[Jacqueline]

I don't care if I'm the least just as long as I get in. I've felt what it feels like to live my life void of the presence of Jesus and that is something that is not exceptable to me.

God Bless

Jacqueline

[BobTriez]

1.) Where is the basis of salvation placed ? Seems if you can loose it, you've earned it ( by works ) - Nope

ACCEPTANCE is the basis of salvation.

2.) So Jesus is a liar when He promised to be with us "even until the very end of the age" - Nope

nope. he gave that promise to those who do not reject Him. did God mean it when He gave us free will? did He strip free will away from us when we became Christians? and did He lie when He said those that once believed and then chose not to have knowledge of Him anymore would be cut off and turned over to their reprobate minds? nope.

3.) Jesus died for nothing then - apparently his atonement is insufficient huh ? - Nope

believing one can willingly reject Christ after accepting Him does not indicate what you stated... not even close.

4.) So when a nonbeliever repents & is saved, we'd do best to shoot him right away....wouldn't wanna risk or jeopardize their salvation by "falling away" at some point later in life.....yeah, ok....

utterly absurd argument there. one can't "fall" out of salvation, one can make a choice to reject it. this isn't something that happens just because one slips and stumbles.

5.) Paul said we are "bought at a price"....think Jesus is gonna return His purchase ? - Nope

when a gift is purchased, that doesn't mean the person who it was purchased for is required to keep it forever. they have a choice whether to keep it or not.

6.) Isn't the nature of a gift based on the premise that it's FREE ? I've never had someone who loves me ( as Jesus does ) take back a gift....that would mean it's not a gift - God say's it is....I believe Him

the gift is STILL free. God doesn't take back the gift, but some individuals throw it away.

7.) Definition..........

Grace

Pronunciation: 'grAs

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin gratia favor, charm, thanks,

from gratus pleasing, grateful; akin to Sanskrit grnAti he praises

1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace

Unmerited, undeserved....guess it comes down to this - God is incapable of lying - so when He promises salvation to all who repent without condition, He means it! How can we loose something that isn't ours to begin with ?

In His Service,

agree totally with that definition. and agree that God is incapable of lying. but since this is guaranteed to get a thousand responses, i'll let someone else post scripture after scripture after scripture that warns believers of what will become of them should they throw their gift away, and then let you explain how believing that we don't have that ability to reject Him after salvation doesn't assume that God is a liar.

as for me, i think i'll just sit back and watch the fireworks.

My examples/arguments may have been ridiculous - but that was the point....think about it hard for a minute; if you witness to someone and they convert ( praise God ), wouldn't killing them on the spot be the most merciful thing you could do ? If there was a potential that they could at some point down the road 'fall away' and become 'unsaved', why not ensure their salvation by causing their death at a point in time you know they'll go to heaven....

We all know and agree that salvation is not something you can earn - right ? So why would sustaining your salvation be any different ? Folks, it hurts me to no end to hear people speak as though they have no assurance of salvation - as though once you are saved, you somehow have to be good enough to maintain your "status". The moment I became saved, my name was written in the Book of Life - and I do not believe that you'll find any eraser marks in the Book. Once your name is in, it's in. Salvation is a gift from God - period!. Jesus didn't say that whosoever believes in me and doesn't sin shall have eternal life....in contrast, He said " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. - That ends the promise...no conditions, no strings.

Faith is exactly as it sounds, surrendering it all to God and trusting that His atonement is enough....do you believe that His grace is sufficient or are you still relying and something you do to complete the salvation process ?

Friends, you'll be waiting on yourself a long time to finally get the assurance you need to "make it in" if you're trying to do it yourself....don't let Satan deceive you into think that nothing in this world is free....stop trying to pay the debt yourself - 'cause you can't....you can't even do enough good to maintain your salvation....it all belongs to the Lord, and this simple concept of salvation by grace has needlessly worried many a folk throughout the ages.

I know where I'm going after this life - and I'm going there 100 % on the merit of Jesus....how about you ? John 3:36 says - "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life". Nowhere does it say any condition must be maintained or eternal life will be taken away.

Paul said that nothing can ever separate us from the Love of God...nothing! - including things to come ( Romans 8:38-39 ). Don't read into it what isn't there.

In His service,

Bob

Edited May 11, 2004 by BobTriez

[Khristeeanos]

You're not a Protestant? You're Catholic, then? I'm confused....

God-Man,

I am part of the Christian church that is a non-denominal church that stresses (which you wouldn't be able to guess it by my posts here! ) unity and love.

There is no creed, no statement of faith, no headquarters that tells us what to do or believe.

There is an urgent cry among us to just go back to the Bible as the sole authority.

We have many people in our congregations that disagree on non-essentials, but are still able to love each other deeply from the heart.

One of my favorite people there believes in OSAS and yet we have had some great conversations about deep Biblical topics.

We allow our common belief (Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and our Lord and Savior) to be emphasized over our differences.

A common saying among those of the Christian church is:

In essentials: unity

In non-essentials: liberty

In all things: charity

Is it necissary to believe in OSAS to be a Christian? No, it is not.

I personally do not struggle at all with my salvation assurance. I have never been more secure or confident in my relationship with Christ.

I came to realize that our faith is what justifies, saves, and allows God to keep us, and that our security comes from that faith. Where there is faith, there is salvation.

But where there is no faith, there is no salvation.

So then, we must define faith and see where it comes from and if it is rejectable. (by the way everybody, there are more verses than Ephesians 2:8-9 that talk about faith--quote some of those!)

[Ovedya]

You're not a Protestant?  You're Catholic, then?  I'm confused....

God-Man,

I am part of the Christian church that is a non-denominal church that stresses (which you wouldn't be able to guess it by my posts here! ) unity and love.

There is no creed, no statement of faith, no headquarters that tells us what to do or believe.

There is an urgent cry among us to just go back to the Bible as the sole authority.

We have many people in our congregations that disagree on non-essentials, but are still able to love each other deeply from the heart.

One of my favorite people there believes in OSAS and yet we have had some great conversations about deep Biblical topics.

We allow our common belief (Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and our Lord and Savior) to be emphasized over our differences.

A common saying among those of the Christian church is:

In essentials: unity

In non-essentials: liberty

In all things: charity

Is it necissary to believe in OSAS to be a Christian? No, it is not.

I personally do not struggle at all with my salvation assurance. I have never been more secure or confident in my relationship with Christ.

I came to realize that our faith is what justifies, saves, and allows God to keep us, and that our security comes from that faith. Where there is faith, there is salvation.

But where there is no faith, there is no salvation.

So then, we must define faith and see where it comes from and if it is rejectable. (by the way everybody, there are more verses than Ephesians 2:8-9 that talk about faith--quote some of those!)

Amen, brother! I serve under a ministry that's pretty much like that of your church locality, so I know of whence you speak (or something like that).

[Guest matthew517]

Just because you come to know Jesus is God doesn't mean that He has become your life. And that you stop living for yourself and start living in Him and thru Him. The demons know He is God but do not live for Him. I pray that your friend will fall and be broken as the word says and she will be built up upon that foundation rather than be crushed by the same stone.

[Khristeeanos]

Amen, brother! I serve under a ministry that's pretty much like that of your church locality, so I know of whence you speak (or something like that).

Oh, and we don't read from the King James Bible like you do! :a2: :c: :tongue:

[Guest Called]

I grew up Southern Baptist and was taught OSAS and now I belong to a non-denominational church. Through careful study and prayer I no longer buy into the OSAS argument. What I have found to be true alot of the time is that OSAS gives people an attitude of laziness and apathy. The churches I have been in that believe that doctrine were lukewarm. I was once told by a pastor that preached OSAS to look at 2 Timothy 2:13 which says "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself." However, he took that out of context, right before that it says, "If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;"

Why are people so intent on arguing for OSAS? It gives people a license to sin. The Bible says to BE HOLY.

[traveller]

You're not a Protestant?  You're Catholic, then?  I'm confused....

God-Man,

I am part of the Christian church that is a non-denominal church that stresses (which you wouldn't be able to guess it by my posts here! ) unity and love.

There is no creed, no statement of faith, no headquarters that tells us what to do or believe.

There is an urgent cry among us to just go back to the Bible as the sole authority.

We have many people in our congregations that disagree on non-essentials, but are still able to love each other deeply from the heart.

One of my favorite people there believes in OSAS and yet we have had some great conversations about deep Biblical topics.

We allow our common belief (Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and our Lord and Savior) to be emphasized over our differences.

A common saying among those of the Christian church is:

In essentials: unity

In non-essentials: liberty

In all things: charity

Is it necissary to believe in OSAS to be a Christian? No, it is not.

I personally do not struggle at all with my salvation assurance. I have never been more secure or confident in my relationship with Christ.

I came to realize that our faith is what justifies, saves, and allows God to keep us, and that our security comes from that faith. Where there is faith, there is salvation.

But where there is no faith, there is no salvation.

So then, we must define faith and see where it comes from and if it is rejectable. (by the way everybody, there are more verses than Ephesians 2:8-9 that talk about faith--quote some of those!)

DM, this post IS unity and love! Very nice expression of your belief brother. And I agree

[Guest saved@8]

bobtriez,

i loved your post. i think we're in agreement on this issue.

[BobTriez]

I no longer buy into the OSAS argument.  What I have found to be true alot of the time is that OSAS gives people an attitude of laziness and apathy.

So in other words, you must do something to earn your salvation, right ( or at a minimum maintain it ) ? You are placing your salvation 'status' on your works...Either Salvation is by grace alone or it's not....no middle ground.

Where do you draw the line ? How many sins need be committed before you are no longer saved anymore ? And if you then decide to come back, does Christ have to die all over again ? ( apparently His atonement wasn't enough the first time around ).

The way I view this is where are you placing your salvation ? Not just the moment of your conversion, but throughout your life. If your 'saved status' fluctuates depending on how good you are, then salvation is by works ( you're saying your sin causes you to loose it, therefore it's an act by you that regains your salvation at a later date ).

I simply believe in the sovereignty of God and my salvation is based on Him and His effort, not mine. To believe one can loose it means you gain it back by works ( regardless of what that work may be ) which would nullify Christ's sacrifice on the cross ( apparently we can do it ourselves, so Christ isn't needed anymore.

One of the most beautiful things of being a Christian is knowing that you are saved no matter what and never having to worry if you need to re-ask for the gift of salvation ( does not mean we can sin all we want and be spiritually lazy however.....but that is being discussed in a different thread right now ).

In His service,

Bob