Did Jesus descend into hell?

[Xan]

Things sound better when you can hear the tone of voice....the "YOU" was a general one, not a specific "You". I am sure that personally you know of people who just read what someone else has written concerning a Bible verse or concept. And the worthy enough to know was God would feel that way towards someone seeking his truth.....not mine....and would reveal an understanding to them, who studied the Bible for themselves.

In My brain I thought i wrote in a way that that was understood. Apparently I didn't. I hope this clears it up a bit. And I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Welcome, Keturah. Just to make it easier for you, I will tell you this: When you quote someone in your post, it seems quite clear that you are addressing that person specifically especially if you use the word "you".

Good luck on these boards.

[Celt]

The Revelation 12:8 verse stands as Biblical evidence as to where Satan's abode is...

Rev 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

(KJV)

Here's the subject flow:

Rev 12:6-14

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman fleeing into the wilderness for 1260 days marks the time of tribulation which both the Book of Daniel and Revelation declare by the events that are to occur. Rev.12:14 picks up this woman fleeing into the wilderness per the subject flow.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

That war is in HEAVEN, not on the earth. The dragon and his angels no longer have a 'place' in Heaven after that war. That's the subject. That means, until that war happens, "their place" is in Heaven, but in a place of separation like Jesus revealed in Luke 16 with the rich man in hell.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

As a result of that war in HEAVEN, the dragon (the devil) is cast down to the earth with his angels.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

When that casting out happens, then that will be said in Heaven. At that time the "kingdom of God" and the "power of His Christ" will manifest in Heaven without the Devil and his there. That means this particular casting out cannot be about the time of Satan's first rebellion, since it shows a time after Christ's Resurrection with "the power of His Christ". Until that war in Heaven, Satan stands as our accuser in Heaven before God. When he is cast out, that will stop.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

That is a tribulation timing event, those who will overcome the devil through Christ by giving a Testimony for Christ.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those in Heaven rejoice, because Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven down to the earth. But woe to those who are on earth, because the devil has come down to them in person, and he has a short time. That "short time" is a tribulation marker, for our Lord said that time would be shortened for the sake of His elect (Matt.24). This points to the devil himself, in person on earth with his angels, as The Antichrist for the last days.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

(KJV)

That links back to the Rev.12:6 of 1260 days. In this 14th verse, that 1260 days is given as "a time, and times, and half a time".

Rev 12:15-17

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

God gave a spiritual metaphor with the idea of a 'flood' in the OT prophets. This flood is used as a metaphor here also, since this one comes out of the dragon's mouth. Verse 16 links this flood metaphor with the time of Noah.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(KJV)

Because the dragon goes to make war with those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ", it means again, this is set for the last days of tribulation. Revelation 13 continues with more info about that "dragon", which is the devil himself.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Celt

[Guest parpar]

Hi Celt.

Thank you for your post, in which you said.

"Might want to note the 1 Peter 3:19 verse again; it was Christ Who preached The Gospel to those "spirits in prison". That preaching wasn't in Noah's day. What 1 Peter 3:20 says was in Noah's day, was how those spirits were disobedient against God".

If your interpretation is correct, then the question arises, why did He go?

Was it to tell the individuals referred to below, how to get saved?

Please have a look at the following, and let me have your comments.

Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"

Job then said,

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 5:23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Was this man saved at the time of his being taken, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:1 WHAT then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[fn1]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."[fn2]

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

But, God said,

Mat 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

And also,

Mat 17:1 NOW after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;

Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Elijah are alive, and all five were alive before Jesus died.

May the Lord bless you.

parpar.

PS: Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

No second chance after death.

[Celt]

Hi Celt.

Thank you for your post, in which you said.

"Might want to note the 1 Peter 3:19 verse again; it was Christ Who preached The Gospel to those "spirits in prison". That preaching wasn't in Noah's day. What 1 Peter 3:20 says was in Noah's day, was how those spirits were disobedient against God".

If your interpretation is correct, then the question arises, why did He go?

Was it to tell the individuals referred to below, how to get saved?

Please have a look at the following, and let me have your comments.

Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"

Job then said,

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 5:23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Was this man saved at the time of his being taken, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:1 WHAT then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[fn1]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."[fn2]

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

But, God said,

Mat 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

And also,

Mat 17:1 NOW after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;

Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Elijah are alive, and all five were alive before Jesus died.

May the Lord bless you.

parpar.

PS: Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

No second chance after death.

Hello Parpar,

What you're pointing to with those examples is the idea of chosen election. If you study John 17 closely, you'll discover Jesus talking about two specific groups of believers; the elect who were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph.3) which He 'sent' into the world for service, and then those who believe The Gospel by their preaching. Both are to become one in Christ Jesus. Which do you think Job and Enoch were of? A double blessing is shown in Job's case, and that points to him as one of election. With Enoch who was even given to prophecy of Christ's second coming per the Book of Jude, there's no doubt. Same with Abraham and all the OT Patriarchs and prophets.

It is for that reason that Paul taught in Ephesians that the foundation of The Gospel was first known through God's chosen elect.

In Matthew 24 our Lord Jesus mentioned a group of "very elect". He said that a false one coming would do such powerful miracles in deception that it would 'almost'... deceive His very elect. His Message was they still would not be deceived by that event even. Why? Because they are His chosen, and elect. It was not by coincidence that our Lord Jesus described Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham in Luke 16, because even as Paul taught that all who have believed The Gospel by Faith like Abraham did have become the children of Abraham (Galatians). Abraham represents the children of Faith in The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But what of those who are not of His chosen elect? What of those in Old Testament times that saw God's miracles first-hand like in the time of Moses in Egypt, and still they refused to believe? Is Grace through Christ's Blood by Faith not to be offerred to those who didn't even get to hear? Was Noah's warning of a coming flood the same as preaching Salvation through Christ crucified?

There were many bad judges at the time of Jesus' first coming, and Jesus worked miracles among the sinners which those who sat in judgment thought were doomed. Likewise, I feel it's bad judgment to think that those in hell who were once disobedient cannot be saved by Christ's Grace after He came to die on the cross to defeat the devil and the power of death.

[Matthitjah]

Hi Celt.

Thank you for your post, in which you said.

"Might want to note the 1 Peter 3:19 verse again; it was Christ Who preached The Gospel to those "spirits in prison". That preaching wasn't in Noah's day. What 1 Peter 3:20 says was in Noah's day, was how those spirits were disobedient against God".

If your interpretation is correct, then the question arises, why did He go?

Was it to tell the individuals referred to below, how to get saved?

Please have a look at the following, and let me have your comments.

Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"

Job then said,

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 5:23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Was this man saved at the time of his being taken, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:1 WHAT then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[fn1]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."[fn2]

Was this man saved at the time of his death, or did he have to wait until he heard the gospel preached by Jesus in prison?

But, God said,

Mat 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

And also,

Mat 17:1 NOW after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;

Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Elijah are alive, and all five were alive before Jesus died.

May the Lord bless you.

parpar.

PS: Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

No second chance after death.

Hello Parpar,

What you're pointing to with those examples is the idea of chosen election. If you study John 17 closely, you'll discover Jesus talking about two specific groups of believers; the elect who were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph.3) which He 'sent' into the world for service, and then those who believe The Gospel by their preaching. Both are to become one in Christ Jesus. Which do you think Job and Enoch were of? A double blessing is shown in Job's case, and that points to him as one of election. With Enoch who was even given to prophecy of Christ's second coming per the Book of Jude, there's no doubt. Same with Abraham and all the OT Patriarchs and prophets.

It is for that reason that Paul taught in Ephesians that the foundation of The Gospel was first known through God's chosen elect.

In Matthew 24 our Lord Jesus mentioned a group of "very elect". He said that a false one coming would do such powerful miracles in deception that it would 'almost'... deceive His very elect. His Message was they still would not be deceived by that event even. Why? Because they are His chosen, and elect. It was not by coincidence that our Lord Jesus described Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham in Luke 16, because even as Paul taught that all who have believed The Gospel by Faith like Abraham did have become the children of Abraham (Galatians). Abraham represents the children of Faith in The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But what of those who are not of His chosen elect? What of those in Old Testament times that saw God's miracles first-hand like in the time of Moses in Egypt, and still they refused to believe? Is Grace through Christ's Blood by Faith not to be offerred to those who didn't even get to hear? Was Noah's warning of a coming flood the same as preaching Salvation through Christ crucified?

There were many bad judges at the time of Jesus' first coming, and Jesus worked miracles among the sinners which those who sat in judgment thought were doomed. Likewise, I feel it's bad judgment to think that those in hell who were once disobedient cannot be saved by Christ's Grace after He came to die on the cross to defeat the devil and the power of death.

Grace to you,

2Pe

[Celt]

Grace to you,

2Pe

Edited July 17, 2008 by Celt

[Guest]

Hell Bent

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:18-19

Nonbelievers

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 16:9

Do It Their Way

Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Luke 13:23-24

Rather Then Falling On The Rock

Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Luke 20:18

Sent Down From Heaven

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:23-24

To Save Sinners

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:23-24

Or Not

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:25-29

So Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

And Without Shame

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mark 8:38

Eat The Holy WORD Of God

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Rejoicing In Him And Looking Forward To The City To Come

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hebrews 11:13-16

Believe The Word Of God

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Luke 4:4

For A Merry Heart

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen

Jude 1:24-25

Trust Jesus

Be Blessed Beloved Of THE LORD OF LORDS

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Noah's Righteousness Is The LORD Jesus Christ

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

There Is None Other

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. Isaiah 61:10

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

2Pe

[Celt]

That's just it, Israel had Moses and the prophets. The Gentiles then did not. Even in our era there's no doubt some in foreign lands that have died without hearing about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason The Gospel was preached to the dead also. And those prisoners in the pit that believed were led out by Christ. That's what the event of the "spirits in prison" was about.

[Matthitjah]

That's just it, Israel had Moses and the prophets. The Gentiles then did not. Even in our era there's no doubt some in foreign lands that have died without hearing about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason The Gospel was preached to the dead also. And those prisoners in the pit that believed were led out by Christ. That's what the event of the "spirits in prison" was about.

Grace to you brother,

Question.

How do you know the Gentiles did not have the Gospel preached to them?

The Word of God states otherwise. In fact Romans states that what is to be known of God is evident in the natural wonder of the Creation and that those who ignore it and Him are without excuse.

I find a simple story in the Bible simply amazing for it's clarity about how the Word was spread.

When the Israelites were about to enter the land and sent spies in to survey what the situation was. They ran across a woman, a very special woman, who would become part of our Lords Lineage. She declares something very wonderous about this Gospel.

Jos